Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i posted this on another forum and i didnt seem to get an answer so im gonna try here.i have a vivarium 24" tall x 18" deep and 18" wide.im currently lighting it with a 20 wt esu reptile super uv compact florecent(kind you screw into a regular socket) and a sylvania "spot grow" light made for plants.my vivarium is heavily planted and is 2 feet tall so i am concerned about having enough light to reach the moss and accent plants on the floor.id like to get rid of the sylvania spotgrow light because it gives off too much heat(burns tops of plants),and id like to replace it with something else.i mainly got the esu reptile 20wt full spec compact florecent to make my greentree pythons blue brighter but he doesnt need full spec light to be healthy.so considering that the one esu light i have covers that,my only concern is for optimal plant growth.i figure i can replace the spotgrow light with another compact florecent but am unsure what type to get or exactly how much lighting is needed to properly light this size setup for good plant growth.can i use a basic(5 dollar)compact florecent for the plants since they dont need uv light,if so,will any compact florecent do??after i toss the sylvania ill be left with one 20 wattt esu reptile super uv compact.how many more watts will i need to cover the lighting??will another 20 wt of a regular compact florecent do?or do i need more??if i can use a regualr compact florecent,why do they even sell special grow bulbs like the sylvania spot grow??

Chris or Matt probably know.
Bob

I read your post in the other forum but figured someone else would respond my mistake. Bob is correct Chris Harper would probally be the best man for this question. But I am sure he will ask about what type of animal and the such, that you didn't mention, save fo the GTP but like you said they don't need UV.

In my opinion unless you need a UV bulb for a particular animal any bulb will work under some circumstances. You posted this origionally in the Dart frog forum so I assume you will be using the bulb for that enclosure. If thats the case UV isn't a factor either. And UV and full spectrum are different bulbs anyways.

Your post mention bulbs mainly for plants so I am assuming that is what you want the lighting for. Most keepers of dart frog stick to plants that need 12 on 12 off of light anything else will not be stable in the enclosure. Also most keeper's use a dual full spectrum light above the enclosure that should be sufficient for most plants.

I also find that moving the light to the front of the enclosure and tilting slightly to the rear so that the light shines towards the back panel. Since most enclosures keep life to the rear, the light will be less likely to be blocked by other plants.

Also some plants like shade so you can fill shady areas with those plants. It is all up to you and its your design. In my opinion I would stick to the full spectrum for the plants your animals clearly don't need it. To me your post sounds more like you are second guessing yourself. As long as you have a full spectrum everyone will be happy and if the plants die maybe something else was wrong.

I would consider dual bulbs as you can lower the Wattage and keep the same light without burning plants or cooking the enclosure.

My 2 Cents
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

ok so youre suggesting 2 bulbs??yea i know my green tree python does not need full spec light but i have noticed his blue is 100 percent brighter under this type of light so i included the esu reptile 20 wt super uv,at it does the job great.now that leaves room for another light.you say uv and full spec are not the same thing and plants dont need uv.so im now looking for another compact florecent to place in the other holder(the one the sylvania plant spotlight was in)so,can you reccomend another full spectum compact florecent???i mean i paid almost 30 bucks for the esu reptile one,but if you say i dont need uv for plants and only full spectrum,can i find another compact florecent for less money??can you reccomend a manufacturer and where i could buy it?you are correct in saying that since my chondro doesnt need any special lighting,all i need is a cool burning bulb that doesnt need a special balast,thats good for plants.im at a loss as the only "plant"lights i see for sale,are either the spot light types(that burn hot)or the florecents that require a special balast.

>>ok so youre suggesting 2 bulbs??

Ya two bulbs will give you more light but less heat do to there being two lower wattage bulbs.

"uv and full spec are not the same thing"

Yes thats what I am saying but most bulbs do a part of each. When they say full spectrum they mean the full spectrum of white light which we all know is broken down into all the colors visable to the eye. UVR, Ultraviolet Radiation is a different spectrum entirely.

The way Flouresents put off light is through the vibration of a gas within the tube. By changing that vibration manufactures can isolate different wavelengths of the elecromagnetic spectrum. But most bulbs will do a little of each but these bulbs are only advertised as what they do most.

Plants don't need UV they react to it because insects require UV for identification of certain flowers. They just need the full spectrum to cover all visable light they need.

So,can you reccomend another full spectum compact florecent???

Vitalight makes a good full spectrum plant light but I haven't had to by lights in years. But since I am in the process of building a dart frog enclosure I will soon be doing my research.

i mean i paid almost 30 bucks for the esu reptile one,but if you say i dont need uv for plants and only full spectrum,can i find another compact florecent for less money??

Yes, perhaps

Can you reccomend a manufacturer and where i could buy it?

At this time no, but others will post I'm sure, I also sent your post to Chris Harper to get his view point.

"or the florecents that require a special balast"

If its the Ballest those are cheap at nearly every Hardware store just need to find out the one you need. You could look into full spectrum self ballasting bulbs they use in reef tanks. They also make some remarkable micro lighting for use in reef tanks. You should look into those.
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

Did some research and I think you should stick with the esu bulb. Get two instead of one is a possibility. ESU has a lot of good bulbs to choose from. I would stick with them you already have one bulb that works so you would no better than I would if it is good enough.
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

2 bulbs, do you need UVB? I'll leave that to the experts.

As stated full spectrum, it generally refers to a full "white" light. But some do dip over into UVA. DIP is a highly technical term.

I raised cactus probably before you were born, we used 4.1 florescent cool white to incandescent. Fancy plant and reptile bulbs were not really available.

Most plants only need UVA 400-320 nm Nano Meter.
Reptile UVB refers to the UVB spectrum 320-280 nm

herps need 285-295 nm,, which is a debatable ranch,and of course for basking herps.

UVC is blocked by our ozone, or what is left of it.

UVB is usually made in bulbs from mercury vapor gas.

Sad thing is regular florescent lights make UVB but a protective coating is added to keep it from escaping the bulb.

Mercury vapor bulbs naturally give off UVB, and this is why there is a class action law suit as UVB is bad for human in to much quantities. pardon my grammar.

Most VB is blocked by all glass or plastic except "hard glass" basically Pyrex.

After all the UVB has to pass out of the bulb glass.

If me, I think I'd just use a good "plant" bulb.

Here's a guess, most plants used in vivariums are probably plants that grow under the canopy of the forest, hence filtering UVB.

UVB use to kill my fichus for my chameleons.

HHmmm am I done babbling? na

phase of the day

heliotropic stimulation.

not near as good as ontogeny recapitulate phylogeny
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Tom

www.herpzilla.com

Had to reply to this one. UVB florescent tube dual lighting works best for planted enclosue and it will enhance the color of the snake even though most say they don't need it. But in the wild GTP bask in sunny spots to thermalregulate wether full sun or in between full shade. ESU is a good brand but my preference for planted enclosure is Exo=terr (30% UVB and 10%UVA up to 16" before that ratio goes down. The new Repti-Sun florescents have same ratio but up to 20" before decline as they state. Both tubes can be purchased for $18 -$20 each at LLL.com, ReptiDepot, and a few others. I recommend trying one of these lights for a month, see the changes and then if you're not satisfied go with two. Also consider the amount of substrate in cage to point of tube which will tell you # of inches tube is penetrating. Chrondoweb.com now at http://www.finegtps.com/ is a good place to ask these questions as this is a very professional GTP Breeder with Naturalistic cage setups.

Better to get as many different experiences and opinons then decide, try, and see what works for you.

thanks guys for all your input.i just felt that since i already have one "reptile"uv light that produces uva and uvb,and considering how green tree pythons need little to none(most keepers use none)spending the money on another reptile bulb would be money down the drain.my only concern is plant growth and the research i have done is that plants can basically grow under all types of lights.even the cheap(non full spec)compact florecents,that you can buy for 5 bucks at home depot are great for growing plants but they lack the red spec. for flowering and usually only promote vegative growth.anyway,at this point,what i am looking for in the second light is a cheaper full spectrum compact(mainly to display my animals colors better)with uv output not being a concern.i found a website called"naturallighting.com and they sell all sorts of full spectrum lighting.i found full spectrum compacts there for 10 bucks.im gonna give one of them a try and see what happens.thanks again.oh,one more thing,you guys dont think filtering the light through a glass top would be a problem for plant growth??i mean i know it filters out uv but like i said im not worried about that with my snake.