Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The Dept of Natural Resources raided our little reptile show in Peoria and fined a vendor $75 for selling a grey ratsnake.I cant find any info on them being illegal to sell or purchase.They sell them by the pound at the Streamwood show just 200 miles north of here.Any info would be helpfull...Paul
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Taste like chicken

I have recently moved into the state and as far as I understand any WC snakes that are native to Il most be sold under a permit from the state. I gave away 4 or 5 emory's rats just to avoid any problems. It may have been a bad ID (Emory) by the wildlife guy. What was the ticket actually for.

I have never been cited for anything in IL but I would assume that they are like every other ticket out there with the little boxes they check off. If so what was cited as the reason for the ticket. If you actually had greys I would bet you would beat the ticket in court.

Good Luck
Jason

>>I have recently moved into the state and as far as I understand any WC snakes that are native to Il most be sold under a permit from the state. I gave away 4 or 5 emory's rats just to avoid any problems. It may have been a bad ID (Emory) by the wildlife guy. What was the ticket actually for.
>>
>>I have never been cited for anything in IL but I would assume that they are like every other ticket out there with the little boxes they check off. If so what was cited as the reason for the ticket. If you actually had greys I would bet you would beat the ticket in court.
>>
>>Good Luck
>>Jason

Ive lived in IL my entire life and have never heard anything about grey rats being illegal.I read the article in our local paper and dont know what the citation was for.The vendor is from Iowa and very smart with herps and herp laws.The ticket was only 75 dollars so it couldnt of been anything major.I talk to this guy at the shows and will shoot him an email.
It's a very small show and they sent 3 dnr agents in for 10 vendors.They also bought some illegal size turtles and torts(have to be 4 inches).They ended up raiding the place later in the show and scared the crap out of little kids who were there for a best costume prize.With hunting season,meth labs, and poaching out of control I cant believe they came back with 6 DNR cops that could have been doing something smart...Paul Yancick..
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Taste like chicken

Never underestimate your DNR. The only thing i can think of is a bad ID for the ticket or possibly something about it being WC if it was. The reason the DNR is there is because it is a small show. If they can discredit it before it gets off the ground maybe it will go away. They probably think that if they "bust" the show they will kill the show. Keep us posted on the facts of the situation.

Later Jason

>> It's a very small show and they sent 3 dnr agents in for 10 vendors.They also bought some illegal size turtles and torts(have to be 4 inches).

Is that a separate Illinois law from the federal one? Federally, the 4" rule has exceptions for "educational purposes." Sooooo, selling the turtles is NOT illegal unless you sell it for a "non-educational purpose." I think there are some other exceptions, too.

>>>> It's a very small show and they sent 3 dnr agents in for 10 vendors.They also bought some illegal size turtles and torts(have to be 4 inches).
>>
>>Is that a separate Illinois law from the federal one? Federally, the 4" rule has exceptions for "educational purposes." Sooooo, selling the turtles is NOT illegal unless you sell it for a "non-educational purpose." I think there are some other exceptions, too.
Yes it is.
That is a very vague law.Do teachers bring in there degrees to prove who they are?Can we not teach our kids how to take on some responsibility and have some fun in the process?The turtles were sold to adult men not children...Paul
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Taste like chicken

>>That is a very vague law.Do teachers bring in there degrees to prove who they are?Can we not teach our kids how to take on some responsibility and have some fun in the process?The turtles were sold to adult men not children...Paul

I think it is a horrible law. It is more of "big brother" sticking his nose into trying to control the citizens of this country - where big brother has no dang business! .gov is out of hand, and we can leave it as that.

The turtle breeders I know just post a sign saying all sales are for educational purposes only to cover their ass. That is usually all it takes!

KJ

In order to sell any snake that is native to IL, The person
must have a aquaculturist license. The people selling the gray ratsnake did not have a license to do so. That is why they got the ticket.

Rick

Whoa Grey rats make it into IL. I gotta look at a field guide then. I guess I am kinda dumb on the local snakes here cuz I thought only Black rats where found. That would explain it though. Thanks

Later Jason

Grey rats are in the south east corner of IL.

Thanks Rick

Yeah thanks I went and looked it up after I read your post. I forgot how long IL is and how far north the greys come up. I know how far south they go even where they are found in each Co down there but up here in IL I know almost nothing. LOL It is kinda nice to need to find how to locate snakes again. Still I would rather be back in Florida finding more snakes.

Later Jason

>>In order to sell any snake that is native to IL, The person
>>must have a aquaculturist license. The people selling the gray ratsnake did not have a license to do so. That is why they got the ticket.
>>
>>
>>Rick

Rick Im not trying to be a smartass but why do you need a (aqua)culturist license to sell native snakes?Is it just some kind of red tape they throw at petshops?Next year I would like to vend but with all the confusion and different answers I get from people at the shows I wouldnt know what to do.Is there a website stating the laws and what permits if any I would need?
Thanks Paul

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Taste like chicken

>>Rick Im not trying to be a smartass but why do you need a (aqua)culturist license to sell native snakes?Is it just some kind of red tape they throw at petshops?Next year I would like to vend but with all the confusion and different answers I get from people at the shows I wouldnt know what to do.Is there a website stating the laws and what permits if any I would need?

I'd stop asking people at shows since many of the breeders are probably as confused as you, and VERY few breeders ever actually put in the effort to find the actual regs! Call the state DNR and get the answer from the horses mouth. They'd be the ones writing the tickets! If possible, EMAIL to person over that division. Believe it or not, but however they answer you is not legally binding (like the IRS!). However, documented answer CAN help in court to show you were operating in "good faith" of obeying the law. Even with emailing, I'd call, too, to get told what the laws or to make sure you absolutely understand the laws.

An evening ofwork can save you months of fighting a citation.
KJ

Paul-- The best thing for you to do is contact DNR, they will be able to provide the correct answers. If you ask venders or possible venders they all think they know the laws. It would be a shame to accidently break a law because you asked the wrong person. I would call DNR and have them send it to you.

Rick

Also, read the regs yourself! DNR agents often don't know the legalities of herp issues themselves (or read them differently than you do). I highly recommend dealing with them via email, and saving the emails.
I've done this in the past, and one DNR agent I was dealing with told me that it was OK to do something, when in fact his answer was clearly contradicted in the regs. Had an issue arisen out of that matter, I imagine that providing his email would have settled the problem in court.
Shane
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Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

Paul,
You will probably have to do what I did here.
I got in touch with the TWRA (Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency)
and had them send the required permit applications needed to sell and breed corns and rats here in Tennessee.
Get intouch with the IWF (Illinois Wildlife Federation) and see if they will send what you need.

http://www.illinoiswildlife.org/index.html
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

np
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Taste like chicken