Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Got a new word for y'all to learn--RESPONSIBILITY!!! For 40 years now I have been keeping Herps. Everything from Anacondas to Poison Dart Frogs!!! And the one thing I have tried to keep in perspective is that these creatures are living, breathing things that depend on us for their well-being, their security. We provide (hopefully) a secure, clean home, comfortable temps and good food. When we do they provide us with years of enjoyment!!! When we don't, we let them down. It is our RESPONSIBILITY! They are not toys to be subjected to our whims. If we want to keep them in situations that are not the norm for what they were created we do them a disservice. And we also have a RESPONSIBILITY to other herpers. There are plenty of folks that would like nothing better than to take our right to keep herps away from us. We give them Ammo to use against us when we do not keep our animals in correct conditions. We all need to be about doing what's best for our charges and for our hobby! So much for today's Sermon!!!

Pat G-C

Not really my fault is it....Hehehe anyway wasn't you explained before that everyone is a newb when it comes to animals specifically snakes. If I remember KJUN explained (may be wrong) that everyone is learning new things everytime with different snakes. Wow so you know more that me for 40 years or so, thats wonderful...But guess what you had a 40 year head start so its not fair. But its nice that you atleast adress us by newbs so we know who needs to reply to your thread. I just wanted to explain myself, in no way was I disrespecting you pastor. Dont take this the wrong way but what do people think of the pastor/snake man thing?

>>Dont take this the wrong way but what do people think of the pastor/snake man thing?

I've wonder that myself - how many people have an ISSUE with it? I know that many people will be indifferent, and we've already talked about some that are supportive in one way or another at the last show.

Personally, I've got 2 socially unacceptable hobbies: guns and herps (in that order). I figure the BLM already has enough hatred for me. I can avoid getting the religious crowd mad at me, too....lol.
KJ

Yo KJ,
Thanks for your words!!!! As to the Pastor thing if you are going to communicate with another you need to know that person. You will never know me outside of who I am as a minister. Just like I don't think anyone can know you without knowing you are death on hybrids. The Pastor "thing" never gets in the way for me. I don't talk about religion and I usually make light of the fact that I am a minister. Actually since people generally find it is so weird that a minister would keep snakes I kind of like the distinction. And you might not believe how much discussion comes my way that thinks it's neat. But like you KJ I don't much care what people who won't take the time to get to know me think of me.

Pastor Pat

Jayson my man,
I want you to be a success with your snakes and there is nothing more exciting to me than seeing a young man or woman getting excited about this hobby. You are absolutely right--it's not your fault that you are a newbie. But remember what I said last time--I am also a newbie and will always be as long as there is something to learn. I started keeping snakes when I was 13 and I had an older guy take me to task everytime I did something goofy. He wanted me learn. And he is still doing just that. You can read his posts on the kingsnake forum. His name is Frank Retes and goes by FR. You haven't heard anything until you're the target of one of one of his rants!!! Darn thing is he is usually right on and makes me think outside the box.

Pastor Pat

>>You can read his posts on the kingsnake forum. His name is Frank Retes and goes by FR. You haven't heard anything until you're the target of one of one of his rants!!!

Yeah, but you haven't had NOTHING until you got old John mad enough to choke you at an ETHS banquet! Don't ask!
KJ

Not that I disagree with the content of your message. I mean, you did manage to point out the obvious. I know, I know...Not everyone GETS the obvious. Still...Too damn preachy. Duffy

Hi Duffy,
As one of the great theologians of the 20th century (John Wayne) used to say, don't apologize! Sign of weakness!!!!LOL. Seriously, though no one makes you read my stuff!!! There certainly are more "preachy" folks than me on these forums!!!! But let me share an experience from the the past--in 1972 I had a Great Basin Gopher Snake about 39" long get out. I looked everywhere and couldn't find it. It made its way out of my house and I didn't see it for a week or so. I came home from work one day to a crowd of people and three police cars two houses down from mine. I went down to check out the excitement and found my snake surrounded. He was hissing and putting on quite a show. I walked through the crowd, picked up my snake, got bit in front of everybody and tried to walk home. The Police stopped me and threatened me with reckless endangerment. The city Council tried to pass an ordinance against the keeping of snakes (didn't happen). The neighhbor tried to sue me (also didn't happen!) And the town's Baptist Minister (I wasn't a minister then!) told his congregation I was a tool of Satan!!! Pretty exciting stuff for a little gopher snake!!! The point to all this is that we all (and I said all!!!!) need to be aware of the particular climate we are living in now. Our actions have ramifications. And if that is too preachy well, I am just being true to who I am!!

Pastor Pat

>>And the town's Baptist Minister (I wasn't a minister then!) told his congregation I was a tool of Satan!!!

Man, and I thought I had the distinction of being the only one referred to that way in the past on this forum.

Years apart, but it sounds like we had a similar type of childhood in some ways. Live and learn or you don't live long, right, Pat?

KJ

people like you are what makes "newbs" afraid to ask thier questions, your not helping at all!
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jake

my addiction:
2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
1 amelenistic corn snake (mazy)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)

>>people like you are what makes "newbs" afraid to ask thier questions, your not helping at all!

If he "scares" them into reading about their animals BEFORE buying them or researching stuff to learn for THEMSELVES before asking the same question that was asked 5 times yesterday, he is doing ALL of us a good service! ...he's doing them a good service by forcing them to learn MORE in the effort to answer their question on their own, too. That's only MY opinion, though.....

you are right to a point..... but i must say alot of people do research, i research garter snakes, ball pythons, cornsnakes and king and milk snakes a year before i ever even considered getting one........ when i got naaza, my first corn in march, i still had questions.......... and thankfully everyone here like kel, kat, draybar, duffy, phiber, gargoyle, zee, darin, hotshot and many more were here to answer my questions and give me very good advice.
for fisrt timers to come here and ask "how do i get my temps up?" and get the reply "weve covered that five times iin a week, go look it up" does not help them nor does it make them feel like they are getting any help, only thing it is doing is making it hard for any one to want to ask for help, because then you are bothering people with stuffed that has been covered already.. then also the "newbie" all of a sudden feels like their questions are stupid.
so to say that not being responsible is giving herpers a bad name is in fact true, but also part of being responsible is to ask a question, if it has been covered and disscussed 198346 times, some first timers come here and dont realize you can search the forums.......... if it the subject has been disscussed and you dont want to gover over it again then why not post a "hey we were disscussing this same thing last week, heres the link......................." also you can search the forums for more on this subject.....
sorry i didnt mean to go on about it, im having a very bad week and i guess that set me off.

all of you make valid points,but all i can say is LISTEN @ READ!!! jeff

that was the exact thing i was thinking as i began to read these post.... i havent really been posting alot lately because of the whole "newbie" thing

>>people like you are what makes "newbs" afraid to ask thier questions, your not helping at all!

The phrase "people like you" drives me nuts. It puts people in a safe little box where they can then be judged and condemned from a distance.

That little pet peeve aside, here's why some people get annoyed by newbies. Imagine, that you work at a cafe across from the grocery store. A person comes in, carrying a sale flyer for that grocery store. They ask directions to the grocery store, never mind that it's 100 yards from them, in their line of sight and they have the address on the flyer. You tell them, and they leave, with or without saying thank you.

The next person in line also has a sale flyer and asks directions for the grocery store. Nevermind that the store is in their line of sight, they have the address, and they were close enough to overhear the conversation between you and the prior person.

If this continues, soon even the most mild mannered espresso mixer will soon be snarling sarcastic comments. And, when someone comes in and asks where do you import your coffee beans from, you may be very surprised, thinking a little before answering.

This forum, is not too different from the hypothetical cafe. We generally like to help, evidenced by the fact that we're here. We're happy to point someone to the proper resources so they can learn more, or give our anecdotes on this kind of substrate versus that kind, assuming it's not for the third time in half a page of threads.

But anyone who strolls in here with no intention of finding things out for themselves, or who hears only what they want to, or uses the forum as a replacement for actual thinking, or utterly refuses to do any actual research, is bound to get hissed at, or recieve a G-rated reply toned to equate to something that rhymes with "Duck Shoe"

Admittedly, sometimes people are chewed out for little reason, or even for none at all. Sometimes I'm hesitant to ask questions, for fear of getting chewed out. But even then I'll ask. Having a 4 1/2 ft little Cal king try to eat me, and two manic pound puppies drown me with drool kinda puts some little words typed onto a computer screen into perspective. And I'll stop now before I ramble too much.
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

Excellent post!

There is always a certain small group of people on any forum who will respond to questions from a newbee as though the newbee was an idiot, just because they have never seen a post from that person before. Perhaps they want to establish their superiority, I don't know. LOL

But, to my mind, the responsibility of a "newbee" is to research fully before you get your snake in the first place, and I mean research, not just asking questions.

I'm probably the oldest "newbee" on this forum, but I did my research by reading all the posts on this forum and others, which not only gave me a wealth of information, but also set firmly in my mind whose posts I would give credence to, and whose posts to take with the proverbial grain of salt.

So, when I have a question, I know whose advice to accept on faith, and whose to take as questionable.

I'd suggest this approach to anyone new to any form of critter. Makes things a lot friendlier and leads to a wealth of knowledge.

Leslie

>>But, to my mind, the responsibility of a "newbee" is to research fully before you get your snake in the first place, and I mean research, not just asking questions.
>>
>>I'm probably the oldest "newbee" on this forum, but I did my research by reading all the posts on this forum and others, which not only gave me a wealth of information, but also set firmly in my mind whose posts I would give credence to, and whose posts to take with the proverbial grain of salt.
>>
>>So, when I have a question, I know whose advice to accept on faith, and whose to take as questionable.
>>
>>I'd suggest this approach to anyone new to any form of critter. Makes things a lot friendlier and leads to a wealth of knowledge.
>>
>>Leslie

I've been keeping snakes for about 15 years and I still ask question, mostly just to get others opinions.
I think all Pastor is trying to say is to learn... and if you make a mistake(we all do) learn from it, don't keep doing it over and over.
Oh well, just my 2 cents....
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Cory
Corns(Adults)
1.0 Snow
1.1 Anerythiristic
1.2 Normals
0.1 Okeetee
0.1 Banded
0.1 Blizzard
1.0 Milksnake Phase
Corns(Sub-adult)
0.1 Normal
1.0 Amel
0.1 Normal het Amel
1.1 Bloodreds het Pewter
1.1 Butter
1.1 Aztec Snow
Rats
1.1 Black rats
Pythons
1.1 Ball
Rattlesnakes
1.0 Western Diamondback
Lots of mice and rats

Chris
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mean people suck

(newbies) I believe this partially goes back to an earlier post where we are all more or less catagorized as newbies. We are all just at different stages.
In other words, we will never know everything there is to know.
There is always more to learn.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Anyway Yea If I search and search and search and don't come up with a reasonable amount of information I need to answer the question before I post then I will post the question... This Forum (and all forums) would be FINITO if there weren't people asking questions. I mean yea its sad to see the same questions over and over but what would be the point of forums or message boards to begin with if there werent questions asked before? I mean After everyone asked every single question they or anyone else could think of this would become an ARCHIVE site.

Cool story pat im always looking for older people to teach me stuff, and thanks for answering the pastor/snake thing without getting mad.

>>This Forum (and all forums) would be FINITO if there weren't people asking questions.

Actually, forums with lots of questions still die. ANSWERS to questions is what keeps forums alive. Answers ARE a good thing, but good answers are a GREAT thing. Bad answers can be worse than a dead forum.

HOWEVER, and this is an important point with me, these forums are a tool or a helpful aid - they should NEVER be a crutch for people who just want the lazy way out. If I am too lazy to find a care guide or three and read them completely to learn the answers to questions I didn't even KNOW I had (and end up just posting a silly question to get a FAST answer here), how good of a care do you really think I will give my animal? Care of a snake is a lot more work than just READING a dang care guide before getting the snake!

...and while talking about chilling, stop getting y'all panties in a wad over a disagreement on this dang board! This board is not real life, nobody really remembers crap a month after it happens, and people learn from DISAGREEMENTS! Very seldom can you learn from someone that agrees with you completely.

That is important, but the most important is to KNOW THE FACTS! How many times do you read people spew some knowledge that was old in the 70's, refuse to learn anything KNEW, and get made when they are called on it? Everyone IS entitled to an opinion, but uninformed opinions are NOT equal to informed opinions no matter how much you want them to be! Of course, informed opinions don't always agree, but at least the debate can be reasonable, intelligent, and both parties stand a chance of learning something. I'm the old redneck that says "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain!" That's a good motto - if you have an informed base for your opinion, don't be ashamed ot it. HOWEVER, recognize that you MIGHT be wrong, and learn from it! You CAN learn even when you aren't wrong, too.....

Enough!
KJ

Kjun.... You cant have answers if you dont have questions... So therefore questions AND answers keep forums alive, not just answers.

Just had to say that lol.

Ahhhh, but I have answers for questions that don't even exist yet.....lol.

KJ

hehehe I guess so.

This whole thread reminds me of something harsh that Gargoyle once said to me a long while ago.... I posted a response to a question and I guess it was a retarded answer... and he wrote back to me and said "Do you even own a snake?" this REALLy hurt/upset me at the time. but now that I look back it probably was a stupid answer on my part So for all of the new snake owners I will say this. To us who have had snakes for a while some of your questions sound "stupid" But I don't mean stupid in a negative way. Here, my definition of stupid is "A question that seems even more basic than common sense" but the ONLY reason we think of some of the questions like this is because we have been answering/dealing with them for a LONG time. After answering the same questions for so long some people start to get agitated at answering the same question every other day. ESPECIALLY if it is 3 threads down We don't get upset that you are asking questions! That is why this forum is here! All we want is for you guys/girls to take some INCENTIVE! We won't always be here, and want you guys to figure out what to do on your own as well as share what you learn with all of us! Learning/figuring out your snake is half the fun of keeping them!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
0.0.1 Butter Corn "Butters" (South Park)
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"