Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I wanted to know the range of & latin of the black pine snake as well as the latin for the LA pines. the only 2 species i have an interest in & plan on acquiring soon.

Pituophis m. lodingi (Black Pine snakes) are found in Mississippi and Alabama, having been extirpated from Louisiana; While Pituophis ruthveni (Louisiana Pine snakes) can be found in Eastern Texas and Western Louisiana, with most of the LA accounts originating from Bienville Parish. Keep in mind, it is illegal to collect specimens in Texas, though you may collect an unlimited number in Louisiana with a basic fishing license..
Both species tend to prefer longleaf pine forests, but are rarly encountered in the wild...

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

P. m lodingi (Black Pine snakes) are protected throughout their native range, though the species is produced on a regular basis in captivity and readily available.
Unfortunately, P. ruthveni (Louisiana Pine snakes) are not so readily available and one must exercise caution when acquiring such, as there are many specimens being sold as P. ruthveni which are actually the result of integrating other Pituophis spp. to create a specimen with like phenotypic traits of P. ruthveni...

Good luck,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

>>having been extirpated from Louisiana;

For the record, they have only ever been found in Washington Parish in Louisiana on the MS border. They FEW records are from the 70's, but there is a rumor that one was found in the late 90's. As far as I am concerned, that record is unconfirmed.

> While Pituophis ruthveni (Louisiana Pine snakes) can be found in Eastern Texas and Western Louisiana, with most of the LA accounts originating from Bienville Parish.

Recently. They were much more common in other parts of LA in the past. Before logging destroyed their habitat. they seemsed to be very common in the Rapides Parish area, too.

> though you may collect an unlimited number in Louisiana with a basic fishing license..

...but you can't export them out of the state without a breeders license if you read the laws literally.

KJ

I spoke with Jeff Bounty, of the Louisiana Department of wildlife and Fisheries about an hour ago, to follow up on a conversation we had a couple of weeks ago. He informed me that an unlimited number of wild P. m ruthveni may be collected, with a basic state fishing license, a non-resident license would be required for non-Cajun citizens, and such will allow you to take any specimens you may be lucky enough to collect home, across state lines too, so long as you do not live in Texas. Jeff further explained, it is unfortunate that many folks believe the species is protected, as he and the P. ruthveni working group would like to hear more from folks who have found and collected the species, as they need the locality data. He did indicate that the USF&W has been gathering data on the species for federal protection, but such is at least another year or two down the road.
Also, Jeff indicated eight different parishes where P. ruthveni are "commonly" found, if the term is applicable for a specimen that rarely turns up, but indicated Bienville Parish to be the most conducive area for locating the species.
So, make sure you have your fishing license when you head down there to collect LA Pines!

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Jeff BounDy is a good guy, but HE is not the one writing citations. (He's laid back and OK, even if he is from kalifornia.) The enforcement officers do that. I'll stick to what they've told me is POSSIBLE since it jives with the actual reading of the laws. That doesn't mean they would ever enforce it that way, but they COULD. Read the actual laws for yourself if you care enough about it.

> He did indicate that the USF&W has been gathering data on the species for federal protection, but such is at least another year or two down the road.

They've been saying that for over a decade. I wouldn't hold out breaths on it.

>>So, make sure you have your fishing license when you head down there to collect LA Pines!

Got my lifetime licenses before I moved out of the state for a similar reason...lol.

Now I feel bad, but then again, I'm deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other. I'll have to apologize to Jeff when I speak with him next, as I have been pronouncing his name wrong for the past three months. He must be a great guy, as he hasn't corrected me once.
I just read up on the ordinance and it appears the license covers possession, while the out of state license covers all specimens legally taken per the license for interstate transportation, which would cover P. ruthveni, as the species is NOT protected by the state and the regulations indicate non-protected reptiles may be taken with such, but then again, the terminology in which most laws and regulations are written is so vague, situations as you have indicated can occur, though I highly doubt such a situation would occur, unless you were collecting from a state or federally protected park or preserve.

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

I'm not sure if I want to collect them but I'll reniew my fishing liscense just in case. I just wanted to go herping. I'm a northern guy so I don't get to go herping down south much. Actually I haven't yet just caught & released a few turtles anoles & such in FL. & looked at herps in TX; both places for which I was visiting family.

>>I'm not sure if I want to collect them but I'll reniew my fishing liscense just in case. I just wanted to go herping. I'm a northern guy so I don't get to go herping down south much. Actually I haven't yet just caught & released a few turtles anoles & such in FL. & looked at herps in TX; both places for which I was visiting family.

Even if you aren't planning to collect, get your license to be safe. If you ACT like you might be collecting, a citation CAN always be issued. This is half-joking, but you need a fishing license to FISH and not just to KEEp fish!

Better safe than sorry!
KJ

>>the terminology in which most laws and regulations are written is so vague, situations as you have indicated can occur, though I highly doubt such a situation would occur, unless you were collecting from a state or federally protected park or preserve.

BINGO! ...or unless they were out to get you, had a warden that hated herpers, or some other Gustapo-like incidence occured. THAT is what I warn against...

Jeff is a great guy: short and from kalifornia, but I won't hold either against him (yet). Like most museum people, he "seems" to not be overly in favor of the general public keeping herps as pets. Can't say I disagree with some of his reasons.

KJ

I know Jeff completed his post grad work at LSU, so he can't be totally corrupted by the "Golden State".. LOL

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Since we are talking about it, here is an image of a group of CH ruthveni from a WC gravid female (Louisiana, of course) I got. Still have ownership of the mom and 2 of the babies. 3 of the babies were lost in out vandalism event last year.

>>Since we are talking about it, here is an image of a group of CH ruthveni from a WC gravid female (Louisiana, of course) I got. Still have ownership of the mom and 2 of the babies. 3 of the babies were lost in out vandalism event last year.

I recall that act of vandalism, was very sad to learn of it as well.
Did you recover any of the lost animals and find out who was behind it?

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

I have a Black Pine Snake information sheet on my webpage that you might want to check out. I think it would answer any questions you have regarding these snakes.

Tim

Third Eye