Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi again,

I know that most people who use radiant heat panels highly recommend them, and I use one too, but I'm wondering if there are other heating methods that may be just as good.

I'm considering embedded heating (heating elements embedded in the floor of the cage). Or possibly setting up environmental controls just in the cages (ie, maintaining a recirculation loop of heated/humidified air), though I haven't figured out yet how to establish a thermal gradient with this method. I don't want to go with lights (hot bulbs), ceramic heaters, or heating pads.

How do you heat your burms?

Thanks,
- Mark
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Just curious as to why you are not going with heat panels....based on your description, you seem to making it more difficult than need be. But, you recirculation idea does sound pretty neat if you can pull it off. Just as an aside, I would recommend the inclusion of full spectrum lighting for your burms...since including that into our cage plans, we have seen tremendous increase in overall alertness, activity levels, feeding responses, and general inquisitiveness in their habitat; just something to consider.

>>Hi again,
>>
>>I know that most people who use radiant heat panels highly recommend them, and I use one too, but I'm wondering if there are other heating methods that may be just as good.
>>
>>I'm considering embedded heating (heating elements embedded in the floor of the cage). Or possibly setting up environmental controls just in the cages (ie, maintaining a recirculation loop of heated/humidified air), though I haven't figured out yet how to establish a thermal gradient with this method. I don't want to go with lights (hot bulbs), ceramic heaters, or heating pads.
>>
>>How do you heat your burms?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>- Mark
>>.
>>
>>-----
>>.
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My personal website: www.antegy.com
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My Kingsnake.com Picture Galleries
>>
>> - 1.0.0 Labyrinth Burmese Python Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Suriname Boa Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake Gallery
>> - 1.0.0 Pueblan Milksnake Gallery
>> - 0.1.0 Trinket Ratsnake Gallery
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My photography on photo.net
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>My photography on modelmayhem.com
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>Me on myspace.com
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Hi Rob,

I'm just exploring other options, as it seems to me that I have not been having the same good experience with the radiant heat panels that others have. I plan on calling the manufacturer tomorrow to talk with him to try to figure out whether I am doing something wrong, missing something, or if the panel I have may actually not be working correctly. I'm still undecided at this point.

I'm surprised about the response you've seen to full spectrum lighting. As far as I've known, burms, and most all snakes, don't require full spectrum lighting. I do have his lights on a timer so that he gets twelve hour days. And I have to say, I definitely don't have any problem with him being active or alert, as he seems to up and about quite often. The only time he seems to be settled and resting for any extended period of time is after he has eaten (but then, that's when I like to rest too!).

I should have more info on my situation with my heat panels by tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the info (I'll still consider the lighting option),
- Mark
.

>>Just curious as to why you are not going with heat panels....based on your description, you seem to making it more difficult than need be. But, you recirculation idea does sound pretty neat if you can pull it off. Just as an aside, I would recommend the inclusion of full spectrum lighting for your burms...since including that into our cage plans, we have seen tremendous increase in overall alertness, activity levels, feeding responses, and general inquisitiveness in their habitat; just something to consider.

There is some recent advances/research to show that snakes may actually absorb/synthesize some sunlight and to what amount is important for calcium absorption/Vit D3 synthesis, we are still unsure. And, I am fairly confident this can be met easily with a vitamin supplement. But, I can say that full spectrum lighting is used for most of my exhibit herps (including burms, boas, rattlesnakes, etc.) and they take full advantage of it. Good luck on your decision. Rob

>>Hi Rob,
>>
>>I'm just exploring other options, as it seems to me that I have not been having the same good experience with the radiant heat panels that others have. I plan on calling the manufacturer tomorrow to talk with him to try to figure out whether I am doing something wrong, missing something, or if the panel I have may actually not be working correctly. I'm still undecided at this point.
>>
>>I'm surprised about the response you've seen to full spectrum lighting. As far as I've known, burms, and most all snakes, don't require full spectrum lighting. I do have his lights on a timer so that he gets twelve hour days. And I have to say, I definitely don't have any problem with him being active or alert, as he seems to up and about quite often. The only time he seems to be settled and resting for any extended period of time is after he has eaten (but then, that's when I like to rest too!).
>>
>>I should have more info on my situation with my heat panels by tomorrow afternoon.
>>
>>Thanks for the info (I'll still consider the lighting option),
>>- Mark
>>.
>>
>>>>Just curious as to why you are not going with heat panels....based on your description, you seem to making it more difficult than need be. But, you recirculation idea does sound pretty neat if you can pull it off. Just as an aside, I would recommend the inclusion of full spectrum lighting for your burms...since including that into our cage plans, we have seen tremendous increase in overall alertness, activity levels, feeding responses, and general inquisitiveness in their habitat; just something to consider.
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Can you get full spectrum lightbulbs in standard "incandescent" form? I wouldnt mind trying that to provide a better quality of life for my burm (as well as other snakes) but I would just like to see if I can get it with standard bulbs as opposed to the long tubular ones.

Thanks,

Chris
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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

View my website: www.herpfanatic.com

Full spectrum, and UVB which is provided by flourescent bulbs, or mercury vapor bulbs are two different things.
You can get incandescent bulbs that are full spectrum, but they wont provide UVB.
They will also give up great amounts of heat.

There are some real nice screw-in fluorescent UVA/UVB bulbs that fit into incadescent sockets are now on the market. I've used a few and you can find them at The Bean Farm. That might work real well.

>>Full spectrum, and UVB which is provided by flourescent bulbs, or mercury vapor bulbs are two different things.
>>You can get incandescent bulbs that are full spectrum, but they wont provide UVB.
>>They will also give up great amounts of heat.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Rob, do you think maybe it's just a matter of snakes sort of sensing the time of year from the the availible light (maybe from the UV) rather than actually making use of it? Maybe the sort of indoor lighting we're used to looks like fall/winter to them and full-spectrum looks like summer and so tells them they should be hunting rather than conserving energy for the winter. I think I'm going to have to try this with a ratsnake I have that seems to be pursuing a career as a super-model...

If you can get it to work, the recirculation might establish the gradient on its own(the way a room in a house is warmer closer to the vent)-Sure, you'll be dealing with a smaller area but it should show difference to some extent. As far as the full spectrum lighting, I noticed a difference when I had my snakes as well-maybe just the difference of a more "natural" tone of light, but they acted more like snakes and even willingly stayed out of their hide boxes quite a bit more.

I've no idea why you're having so much trouble with your RHP. Mine have peformed as well as I was told they would. I am, more than happy with them. And I will continue to outfit all of my cages with them as money allows.
As far as full spectrum lighting...a little anecdote.
I have a large male albino in a monster cage. I was too cheap to have a light installed when I bought so I added my own.
A full spectrum GE bulb and fixture.
And I never plugged it in. As more people kept stopping by to see the critters, I finally lit this one particular cage.
I left it on, and lo and behold. A very lazy burm finally came to life. He was off his feed all summer. And began hunting in earnest, and devouring everything I offered him.
I now try and give him a few hours of full spectrum light each day...as I do all my animals.
Works for me. For what reason I've no idea. All I know is that with this one particular animal having full spectrum light made a difference. I now rotate all my UVB lights on all my animals so they all get some exposure.
Only my geckos and skinks go without it...it seems to make them hide more.
For the $18 investement, it was well worth installing that light.
For my next cages, I am going to try and find a fixture I can install permanently that will take a 2.0 reptisun bulb

Studies, whether based on experience from long time breeders, or scientific evidence show that UVB lighting is used by some reptiles, and probably not by others, for the synthesis of Vitamin D3. We all know that.

I think what many of us are finding out, and it makes sense, is that a full spectrum of light can, and will affect animals in many more ways than we can understand. Rob, I"m so happy you brought this up in a forum where the animals of topic are generally considered "non-UVB-necessary".

It was the opinion of Dr. Hernandez-Divers that a full spectrum visual field affects behavior. We define retinas with rods and cones, but we don't exactly have a full grasp of how to define what spectrum of the light is visible to what animal. Definately many animals that don't use UVB for Calcium metabolism are more active and alert in sunlight. Can you imagine if half of your visual spectrum was abscent? You would be living in the shade! No wonder my monitor goes berserck when he gets a shot of real sunlight.

My best, well researched answer to all lighting requirements is to approach the sunlight spectrum as close as you can, and adjust the intensity to suite your herp (basker or ground dweller ect.). Obviously make sure there is an "undergrowth" in the enclosure so your herp can move around without having to feel exposed.

Ian