Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just looked on Graziani's page and saw the Vin Russo Leucistic wich apears to be pure white and comes from a normal looking het. Is it simple resesive? Could all of the morphs that produce blue eyes be het Vin Russos? Maby that is why some of the Lucys produced from them are "ugly" because they are also exibiting the super form of the other morph? Sorry if this subject is getting old but I desperatly want to understand and am yeeeaaaarrrs away from being able to explore this mystery first hand!!!!!
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1.1 Balls (1.0 het clown 0.1 normal)
1.1 Kittys and
0.1 WC Human
"I need evaluation...and dinner; and by dinner I don't meen gnome heads!"

>I just looked on Graziani's page and saw the Vin Russo Leucistic wich apears to be pure white and comes from a normal looking het. Is it simple resesive?

According to the Graziani Reptiles web site, the het form does not look normal. They think the mutant gene is a codominant. This tells me that they are using "heterozygous" as it is used in standard genetics.

Standard genetics definition of "heterozygous" = The two members of a gene pair are different. The gene pair may be made up of a mutant gene and a normal gene or two different mutant genes. (Note: this definition does not specify what a heterozygous individual looks like.) Examples: an albino mutant gene paired with a normal gene (ball python), a pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene (ball python), a motley mutant gene paired with a striped mutant gene (corn snake).

Commonly-used (not totally correct) herping definition of "heterozygous" = The two members of a gene pair are different, and the snake looks normal. Example: a ball python with an albino mutant gene paired with a normal gene. Using this definition would exclude the other two examples in the standard definition above. This definition is actually the standard genetics definition of "heterozygous for a recessive mutant gene".

>Could all of the morphs that produce blue eyes be het Vin Russos?

Blue-eyed leucistic producers (according to the Graziani Reptiles web site):

Het Leucistic (Russo Line) X Het Leucistic (Russo Line)
Lesser Platinum X Phantom
Lesser Platinum X Lesser Platinum
Platinum X Lesser Platinum
Lesser Platinum X Mojave
Mojave X Mojave
Het Leucistic (Russo Line) X Mojave

This list is mindboggling! Are some (if not all) of these the same mutant gene with different names? Could some be different forms of the same gene? Do some of them simply produce mimic homozygous forms or mimic combinations of two independent mutants? Could leucistic be a recessive mutant gene that happened to get into several different lines before two hets got mated? I don't think any of these possibilities has been excluded. I certainly have a lot more questions than answers.

>Maybe that is why some of the Lucys produced from them are "ugly" because they are also exibiting the super form of the other morph?

A definite maybe, here.

>Sorry if this subject is getting old but I desperatly want to understand and am yeeeaaaarrrs away from being able to explore this mystery first hand!!!!!

Me, too! But I think everyone is years and a lot of breeding away from solving the mystery.

Paul Hollander

Vin Russo's web site: http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com
Graziani Reptiles web site: http://www.grazianireptiles.com

More breedings are needed to be sure but parts of the puzzle have been coming together for some time.

Based on the similar appearances of lesser, mojave, and phantom and their interactions and differences seen so far it does seem quite likely that there are at least some cases of multiple mutant alleles of the same gene in this group. To me the big surprises this year have been the evidence supporting the dilute mutation to turn a lesser into a platy being yet another allele and the Vin Russo line also being compatible. It will be fun to see next year's crosses. Of course if we end up having some linkage (like maybe the dilute is a different gene but on the same chromosome) then it will probably take much longer to fully figure out. Lots of breeings of the leucistics and the presumed homozygous phantoms will be very useful too.

And the apparent homozygous phantoms looking so different (not white) was also a big surprise. If the homozygous types look too much alike you have to wonder if the mutations are completely the same but the mix of similarities, compatibility, yet distinct differences is what is now making me pretty confident about the allele theory.