Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This animal is being offered as a Thayeri. I have my doubts due to the head pattern, etc. I do not know the owner, and he is unable to provide a pedigree. For the above reasons I will not buy it, but I am curious if anyone here thinks it is a Thayeri as labled or a hybrid.
Cheers, Danny Lee

DAnny,
That is an awesome milk snake phase thayeri. Why would you question it? You might want to take a larger sampling before making such a bold conclusion.
Russ

I cannot be 100% sure but I would be willing to bet money that is a pure thayeri. That is one very nice looking thayeri. I'm tempted to buy that one myself.

It sure looks alot like this one from David Weymouth. I'm surprised as heck that beauty hasn't sold already.

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

Well, I guess I was wrong!!! That is why is wanted to ask. It looks too good to be true. Don't get the tone of my previous post wrong...I was not acussing the owner of fowl play or miss-representation, and I appologize if it seemed that was my intent. I have just never seen one with a head like that, and, as I am fairly new to Thayeri, I wondered if it was a Hybrid or not, and you seemed like the right people to ask.
Thanks for the quick replies and sorry if I raised anyone's hair!
Cheers,
Danny Lee
P.S. Russ, the pair you sent me are settling in nicely. I will try to feed them on Saturday if they continue this way.

No apologies needed, and I hope we didn't come off like you were from Mars or something. LOL Just out of curiosity what did you think it was crossed with?

Here's another pic. This one is a half brother to the one I previously posted.

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

Chris...that's Sharktooth right? He has great head markings! Very recognizable. I did not have any thoughts about what it might have been crossed with, it just looked unlike any Thayeri head/neck pattern I had ever seen.
I'm the first to admit that I am far from an expert. I have been visiting reptile stores, looking at pictures (and drooling), and reading everything I can get my hands on about Variable Kings for the last few weeks in preperation for getting my first pair (I am fairly new to Kings. I come from Elaphe, mostly), and do not remember seeing any heads/necks that looked like that. So to me it just looked like it might have something else in it.
I am carefull to only purchase animals from reputable breeders and am very interested in the geneology of all my animals. Since I had never heard of the owner and he was unable to provide me with a pedigree, and the snake looked "too good to be true" to me, I began to wonder if it was'nt a hybrid. I understand that since the 1980's, hybrids have become common, so I had the question, and posted to the forum. I really did not have any ideas about what it might have been crossed with. I was not even certain that it had been crossed with anything when I posted. I only knew that crosses where common.
Cheers,
Danny Lee

No problem buddy. It's better to be a little cautious. I can see though that you have developed a good eye for some killer thayeri.
Yes that is "sharktooth" in the pic I posted. John Lassiter now owns both the mother and father to both sharktooth and that other killer thayeri that I posted a pic of. I stated before that that other thayeri I posted a pic of was a half brother to the sharktooth. I was wrong they are brothers with the same parentage but from different clutches. John had some hard luck with his thayeri this year but I have a feeling he's gonna come back with some smokin thayeri hatchlings next year.

I know how you feel about trying to find info on thayeri. Unfortunately there's not alot written about them and its almost impossible to find out anything about them from most pet stores. You've found one of the best sources of information right here. Heck where else can you go to get lambasted about a simple thayeri identity question. LOL (I'm just teasing everyone)
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

""Yes that is "sharktooth" in the pic I posted. John Lassiter now owns both the mother and father to both sharktooth and that other killer thayeri that I posted a pic of. I stated before that that other thayeri I posted a pic of was a half brother to the sharktooth. I was wrong they are brothers with the same parentage but from different clutches. John had some hard luck with his thayeri this year but I have a feeling he's gonna come back with some smokin thayeri hatchlings next year.""

I hope you right Chris.....This year wasn't too depressing...I did manage to produce a dozen thayeri.....That was exciting, but I should have had 4 more clutches at least. Next year I have 9 potential females and some possible double clutchers...If I decide to do so.
You too should have some smokin screamers with your breeding stock....Isn't this a blast man? Nothing beats watching the grey faced babies poke their heads out of their eggs......
Mine will be feeding for the last time next weekend....then two weeks later they will have the heat turned off for a few days then off to the hibernation chamber until March.....I have a different approach to breeding next year....it should prove to be more productive......I CANT WAIT!!! I know you cannot as well.

I can't believe I am already talking about next year, but it is not too far off.....I think the older I get the faster the years go by.....I hope they go by moderately quick as I have some killer projects that only a few people are working with......One project will be 12 years in the making.....Fun, fun, fun!!!!

John Lassiter
Here's the P's to your "sharktooth" and his sibling bro.....
Pics courtesy of David Weymouth...

I produced that orange Leonis female back in 1999 (ID Lmt1999c01). Here's her baby pic. She had the deepest orange I ever seen on a juv thayeri. Her ventral was orange too with some striping....if I recall correctly. I sold her and her brother to David Weymouth a few years ago. That's a very good specimen you have there John. Good luck with her. Dan

Dan,

I'm not positive but isn't this one related to that female too?

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

Not sure Chris. Give me details on its history. Thanks. DV

He also came from David Weymouth. I'm pretty sure that David told me he was from your stock

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

I recognize the tan leonis with the alternators. Great bloodline. Dan

I forgot to mention that you produced her Dan.....She certainly is a looker and was as a juvenile too....What did her parents look like?......If you still have the records I would love to see what here parents looked like....Thanks

Also, for the record...the yellow leonis was produced by Evan Stahl and sold to David Weymouth. I acquired him from David last year.

John Lassiter

John,

I'll locate pics of her parents and e-mail them to you when I get a chance. If I recall correctly, both her parents were orange: sire was leonis and dam a milksnake morph, but I'll check.

Dan

Yes you're right I really looking forward to next year. But I'm ready for a brumation break too. LOL Look out 2006 LOL
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

I guess I'm the only one that read your post in a negative light. It appeared as though you were doing a little mud slinging without enough research. As you will find in the thayeri world there are many different examples of this type of kingsnake. Why Spectrum couldn't show you the parents is kind of odd unless they just don't own them. Sorry to sound so direct, guess that's just my military side of me

Glad the snakes are settling in fine and they'll be ready to eat when you are ready to feed them. Remember thayeri are sensitive to cold snaps so keep them warm 79-82 if you plan to feed them through the winter. Give me a yell if you have any questions.

Russ

Russ,

Neat looking thayeri. Looks a little like a Jaguar Coastal Carpet python pattern. Did you produce it?

Dan

oh man I hope you didn't take this post as "Dan" to draw your attention...I meant Danny Lee.

I didn't produce this guy, he came the way of a guy from New Orleans named Mitch Allen....great guy. I thoguh this snake was very interesting as a hatchling but honestly he does not fit into my breeding plans at all. I'm more focused on very clean, bright yellow snakes. His pattern is interesting.
Thanks,
Russ

I realize you meant Dan Lee.

DV

Definitely........100% Thayeri...unless the crosses have gotten even better.....LOL
And it does look like a Wasatch Reptile (David Weymouth) line thayeri to me.....
If I missed it....where did you get it from?
Nice looking MSP By the Way....
John Lassiter

John, I agree, it is a beautiful animal. I'm glad to know it is not a hybrid! To answer your question, I did not end up purchasing the animal because the owner could not provide me with any background on it, and unless I can see the parents or relatives...
Thanks for the reply,
Danny Lee

Hi Danny

Looks like a legit thayeri to me and a nice one at that. I have an animal with a somewhat similar head pattern pictured below and it's not even as nice as the one in question. Variable is the key word here but you do have to watch for some mutts. But (to me) this would not be one of those mutts. Hope it helped.

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Jonel @ Selective Propagations
www.spsnakes.com

Thanks

That pattern does not raise a red flags in my mind - there's nothing that unusual about it. But, then again, without knowing who produced it and its geneology, anything is possible.

Dan
www.serpentsonline.com