Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The W. Hognose that is 793g. is huge, huge. I'm not sure what chris means by obesity, because it's not what I would call a poster child for obesity in a captive. It looks solid & very stout, but obese, I don't see it. I don't think many wild Westerns would see this size and weight, if any but, it looks, well kept should we say. Ha
Do you have a locality on where it comes from? Texas maybe?

It would be interesting to see if there are areas with bigger Western Hognose then other areas. Like Bull snakes from some Texas localitys.

Anyway nice female Western. And the Pulcher is outstanding looking too. And not what I would consider obese.
How long are both these females?
Dell

Terry, I think Chrish was referring to the Tri-colored hog being obese.
Also very interesting on your comment with locality and size. I'm interested in that myself. Good point on the Bullsnakes. I believe the Colorado Bulls are one of the smaller locals, as compared to some of monster sized Texas Bulls (Hy 277?)I would think with the Western Hogs vast range, you would have something simular with locality and size, as you do the Bullsnakes. Just my .02
Steve

Referring to the tricolor: what exactly is your definition of obesity? At what point would you classify an animal as obese? Most general definitions are 20% over normal body weight, in which case I can imagine this individual probably is. It would be different if it were 10 yrs old, but for 1 yr old snake to be that big, the term obese certainly fits the description.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

I knew this discussion would come down to spilting hairs as soon as I posted. I would say a snake with fatty deposites would be obese. With out fatty deposits, just a nice solid animal.
I'm not try to be an ass here. I thought that Western Hognose was great looking and the tri-color a fine animal also. And did'nt see them as obese, which I took as a negitive. Right?

I keep a pair of tri-color hogs and feed both the same food items every 10 days and the female looks twice the size of the male in girth. If I posted a photo of the two of them togeather she might get the obese name used on her. But I would'nt say she is obese just solid.
Now I keep Rubber Boas also & have a female who is solid and I keep her that way as long as I can because she will go off feed and have eight weeks in burmation too.
I also have Bull snakes from Montana (so on the smaller size) and a wc male was looking solid and I still kept the mice coming to him as long as he would eat them. He looked great, now he has gone off feed for nearly two months and still looks good. And when burmated will still have mass when I take him out of burmation.
Again, I'm not trying to be an ass I just liked the two big snakes and was surprised by the obese jab.
Peace,
-Dell Despain

I appreciate that you like my hog she's a monster I don't have any locality info on her. I purchased her and another adult female from Gatewaycityreptiles.com they were the same size. I have fed them on the same size meals and the same schedules and she just blew away the other female on growing.

she is not obese! she would eat more then twice as much as I feed her if I would let her ,then she could get obese. she is just putting on some wieght so she can start breeding soon, and if she starts laying a clutch of eggs every month like all my other females do,then she will need all the wieght she can get. bigger female /bigger better eggs ! thanks.

JIM

Man that Pulcher is nice Jim! Is this a neonate or an older animal? I'm guessing nate. Hard to get a scale on it.

I would love to see a Hypo Pulcher some day. But that is a beauty.
Keep the photos comeing. Thanks
-Dell

I'm not sure what chris means by obesity, because it's not what I would call a poster child for obesity in a captive. It looks solid & very stout, but obese, I don't see it.

I was talking about the tricolor, not the nasicus posted. The nasicus was just a big girl. Didn't look particulary overweight.

The tricolor on the other hand clearly had a LOT of extra fat under the skin. This was most obvious on the anterior end of the snake where the animal didn't taper at all until you get to the front of the skull. I don't think there is any question that that snake is too FAT.

Certainly Jim's point about pumping out 5 clutches a year is worthy of consideration, but consider a similar strategy in female humans. Imagine a woman getting her weight up to 350lbs so that she could have 5 kids in 4 years. Not a very healthy strategy! It works the same way in snakes.

I'm sure there are areas where hogs get bigger. I don't know where that would be, but there is bound to be regional variation. The biggest Western I ever found was in Hudspeth county Texas. She readily at DOR kangaroo rats and could eat a weanling domestic rat. I don't think she was over 500 grams, but she was WC.

I think kennerlyi are somewhat smaller.
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Chris Harrison
Central Texas

I just weighed my biggest female and she weighs in at 808grams...photo to follow.
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www.hognose.co.uk

Chris, I see your post alot so I know you know what your talking about when it comes to serpents, but I really believe that big look of that Pulcher is often how they look.
I agree you can over feed snakes, but I don't think the two Monster snake photos of the Heterodon and Pulcher are obese, I don't see it.
The 350lb woman idea does'nt work because I have'nt seen a 350lb woman go off feed for two months yet. And if a woman is pregnant she would do better a little over weight then under weight.
I've had my Honduran female at 787 grams before breeding and after laying 9 eggs drop down to 496 grams and over three months put her weight back on, then she is burmated for 8 weeks, with a small drop in weight, brought back up with feeding every 10 days until breeding time. Then the whole thing starts over.
O.k. we've kicked a dead dog.
Hey, don't you keep Rubber Boas? If so how many and do you have locality Boas?
-Dell Despain

I really believe that big look of that Pulcher is often how they look.

They do look that way in captivity. I just haven't ever seen a pic of a wild tricolor that was anywhere near that fat.
It isn't just the size of the body, but also the "pin-headedness" of the snake that makes me think it is overfed.

Hey, don't you keep Rubber Boas? If so how many and do you have locality Boas?

I have one WC female but I got it third hand, so I have no idea where it is from. Richard H. suggested its scalation, color, and size sounded like a northwestern snake. I had a cb male to go with her, but he disappeared this summer. I strongly suspect she ate him!

I have a pair of 3 year old cb snakes as well. The female I got in trade and the male is one of the babies of the above pair.
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Chris Harrison
Central Texas