Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This was spotted in the San Diego area. I thought it was a very cooperative Uta but not untill I actually looked at the shots that I realized it was not a Uta. I have an idea what it is but would like a concensus before saying. It is the size of a large Uta.

-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I'm thinking Small Scaled Lizard (S. microscutatus) The color and pattern kind of make it look like a couple of other choices, but the body form doesn't really match. Although it does look like it has a regen tail. Nice find if it is! What you been up too?

Eimon

I've been trying to maintain sanity... and loosing.

I've been mountain biking in Mission Trails fairly regularly and saw this guy basking in a parking lot after a string of cloudy days. Saw nothing else but spiders (huge tarantulas... lots of them) and lots of snake tracks. (btw, saw a huge 6 or 8 point Buck a few days before)

I though it was a Uta (didn't have my glasses) It was so wrapped up in basking it could give a damn about my presence. I really regret not getting it on 35mm after I got to look at the pictures at home

I believe it is graciosus but everytime I think I've found something neat it's a wash.

Btw, are you still involve in the herp society?

>>I'm thinking Small Scaled Lizard (S. microscutatus) The color and pattern kind of make it look like a couple of other choices, but the body form doesn't really match. Although it does look like it has a regen tail. Nice find if it is! What you been up too?
>>
>>Eimon
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Well, I guess sometimes the obvious is just that!...lol. I should of checked a couple of other sources besides that field guide....hehe. Yeah, I got back involved earlier this year. Trying to help get things back on track. We're making some good progress again. Infact, got to meet a friend of your's Thurs night. He can't believe your ability to withstand extreem conditions in the pursuit of herptile adventures! Check the web site for the Nov meeting announcement and visit us. It's going to be at a special location for that meeting, should be fun.

Eimon

PS- how's the little guy you and Dick found last year looking and doing?

The above mentioned "adventure" was on the way to IHS.

In my defense Ed,
I am amazed at the idea of running around Algadones dunes at one in the afternoon in the middle of summer.What is more amazing is that you did it, and even more amazing is I followed.
But, it was just a dry heat.
cheers,don

You forgot to mentions the shipment of Cunninghams skinks(adults) and the fact that we took a UV reading that was only the second higest recorded in the world. The first being taken some where on the equator.

That was an abnormally extreme side trip.

Not even the lizards were stupid enough to be out.

>>The above mentioned "adventure" was on the way to IHS.
>>
>>In my defense Ed,
>>I am amazed at the idea of running around Algadones dunes at one in the afternoon in the middle of summer.What is more amazing is that you did it, and even more amazing is I followed.
>>But, it was just a dry heat.
>>cheers,don
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Oh, he did mention the UV reading. In an odd way, he seemed kind of proud about that!...lol.

Ya really hadda be there...

There was this british herper with us who is really into research. He's set up a chat for taking UV readings around the world. All the participants use the same make and model UV meter so the relative readings will be on the 'same page'. It's really interesting.

>>Oh, he did mention the UV reading. In an odd way, he seemed kind of proud about that!...lol.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I'd say congrats on finding graciosus. What were you looking for up there?
Shane
-----
Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

That was my guess but I'm not sure. You can see some of the specifics in the above post.

Thanks.

>>I'd say congrats on finding graciosus. What were you looking for up there?
>>Shane
>>-----
>>Shane's Herp Lifelist
>>http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Sounds like you got a few conflicting theories. Nontheless, your initial judgment is correct, it is a Common Side-blotched Lizard (Uta stansburiana). Its all about the scales and location.

Can you elaborate just a smidgen?

No matter how bazzar those little buggers look I've always been able to find a trace of a side blotch.

>>Sounds like you got a few conflicting theories. Nontheless, your initial judgment is correct, it is a Common Side-blotched Lizard (Uta stansburiana). Its all about the scales and location.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I'd have to agree that it's an Uta. We've got a trio of sagebrush lizards in the office, and they have a much more rounded head and a lot shorter snout. The head on yours is too flat and the snout is too pointy. The dorsal scales on sagebrushes are also larger than they are on yours and clearly keeled. Although, I don't find them often, I have found Utas lacking the side blotch.

-Alice

Here's a quick shot I just took of our male sagebrush
-Alice

Thanks you very much for going through the trouble. It was helpful and convincing. Another friend who i bieleve knows his stuff responded off line with a similar explaination.

I guess it's just a different looking Uta as I originally thought... but I was hoping.

Thanks again.

>>Here's a quick shot I just took of our male sagebrush
>>-Alice
>>
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Stebbin’s field guide can explain about locations and scales more than I can do here on a basic forum, Dr. Stebbin has dedicated his life to saving the planet and informing others. First start with where the lizard was located, then seize that up with the distribution in his guide, second study the scales and you will discover what species you have at hand. It’s all about science. As for the “Sagebrush” lizard displayed on the below post. That really looks like a Western Fence Lizard to me. However, once again you have to have more information to clearly identify the species. One: elevation, second identification, and finally and most importantly location. Some people do not reveal locations because they fear the abuse of others, but that only hinders science. Its in the scales…their keeled, therefore Sceloporus occidentalis. This is fun Stuff!!

So... what you're basiclly telling me is to look it up.

Well, I was looking for a little more human interaction than that which I did get but thanks for the help.

>>Stebbin’s field guide can explain about locations and scales more than I can do here on a basic forum, Dr. Stebbin has dedicated his life to saving the planet and informing others. First start with where the lizard was located, then seize that up with the distribution in his guide, second study the scales and you will discover what species you have at hand. It’s all about science. As for the “Sagebrush” lizard displayed on the below post. That really looks like a Western Fence Lizard to me. However, once again you have to have more information to clearly identify the species. One: elevation, second identification, and finally and most importantly location. Some people do not reveal locations because they fear the abuse of others, but that only hinders science. Its in the scales…their keeled, therefore Sceloporus occidentalis. This is fun Stuff!!
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Well, it’s not unusual to find side-blotched lizards without blotched. Just as it’s not unusual to find Red-spotted Toads without red-spots or discover a Colorado River Toad (Bufo alvarius) beyond the Colorado River. Its just a name, but there is science coagulated in Stebbin’s field guide, and it explains all that stuff.

Yes, you really need to look it up, and even then they don't always fall into what you thought you saw! Sometimes you find something that doesn't fit any description, and that makes IDs fun. An ID is only as good as the print that describes it.
There is a lot that we don't know.
Here's a perfect example that I'm familiar with...but it requires a minimum of an eastern field guide to understand the dispute.
This is a typical Five-lined Skink:

This is nothing that any field guide describes, yet it was there:

This character supposedely seals the deal:

It's not a Southern Coal Skink, as that scale character, habitat, and range would suggest. When scale characters take the place of gestalt, you know that something is unusual, if not out of the ordinary, and you'll never find the argument if you fail to embrace criticism.
Shane
-----
Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

And this is why personal experience and information is so much more valuable... it's more fun too.

I've got all of Stebbins books and then some but I was looking for more information considering the answer was obvioulsly not cut and dry.

Criticism I can handle if I come away with with an idea that actually helps me in some way or another.

>>Yes, you really need to look it up, and even then they don't always fall into what you thought you saw! Sometimes you find something that doesn't fit any description, and that makes IDs fun. An ID is only as good as the print that describes it.
>>There is a lot that we don't know.
>>Here's a perfect example that I'm familiar with...but it requires a minimum of an eastern field guide to understand the dispute.
>>This is a typical Five-lined Skink:
>>
>>This is nothing that any field guide describes, yet it was there:
>>
>>This character supposedely seals the deal:
>>
>>It's not a Southern Coal Skink, as that scale character, habitat, and range would suggest. When scale characters take the place of gestalt, you know that something is unusual, if not out of the ordinary, and you'll never find the argument if you fail to embrace criticism.
>>Shane
>>-----
>>Shane's Herp Lifelist
>>http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Yes the scales on sagebrushes are keeled, but they are much smaller size wise than those on a western. The male pictured along with two females were collected from that little disjunct population in north central CA. If you'd like me to, I can take pics of his / their other diagnostic features, but it will have to wait until Monday. Here he is again with a shot of a western fence added for comparison; the difference in dorsal scale sizes is pretty obvious when you see them side by side.

-Alice

You seem to have a knack for taking what are unfortunately considered common and mundane species and showing that they are every bit as fascinating and visually interesting as high end exotics, morphs and other "cool" herps.

Nice post, nice comparative demonstration, and beautiful Sceloporus.

thanks for the post(s)
-----
Randy Hallman

and I've never even seen S. graciousus.