Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all,

Understanding that pretty much everyone in here takes great pride in their collection of hots. I was just wondering if everyone in here keeps their hots in more naturalistic setups and whether you feel it has any impact on their overall health?

Just curious!

Thanks

Chris

-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

View my website: www.herpfanatic.com

I would like to do a couple when my new snake room is done, but there are a couple of issues. The more natural an enclosure is, the more work it is to keep clean. For someone with a large collection, that can make it nearly impossible to keep up. There go any health gains... Also, a realy natureal enclosure tends to mean a lot of "obstacles" which can make dealing with a dangerous snake that much more dangerous.

Hi:

I think Larry is correct. The more natural you make the enclosure, the more dangerous & difficult it is to maintain. I try to sort of find a happy medium...see below.

Al

-----
"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

There is a discussion in the "Snakes: General" forum about housing and naturalistic setups. They were talking about how reptiles housed in more naturalistic setups appear to eat, breed, be more active and appear to be all around healthier than those just simply housed in a basic setup. I got to thinking about that with hots and how that would seem to complicate things slightly with proper handling and cleaning.

I personally feel that a more naturalistic enclosure isn't necessarily a bad idea, however, it appears that it would create more of a hassle with cleaning and whatnot for any herp. Not to mention much more expensive to maintain properly.

Good looking enclosures Al!

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

View my website: www.herpfanatic.com

I would question the idea that the stereotypical naturalistic setup would have an impact on a snake's health, longevity, etc, simply because of aesthetics.

I guess that when someone refers to naturalistic, they mean
- natural looking perches are provided;
- natural looking hides are provided;
- plants (usually fake) are provided;
- natural substrate is provided; and sometimes
- running water is provided

These things, in my opinion, have a positive impact on the snake because of the purpose they serve. But, the snake will use the perches whether they are pvc piping, or real branches... The snake will use a hide whether it's a hollowed out log, or a cardboard box... Fake plants provide further protection, in the same way that extra hideboxes can, or a piece of mesh... Natural substrates are far too hard to effectively keep clean imo, yet, I fail to see what object they serve, other than creating a 'natural' look for the owner... Some people will suggest that snakes will drink more if the water is moving. All Australian species will readily search out still water, but I'm not sure with foreign species. I would imagine, though, that running water is cleaner (provided the devices used to run the water are regularly cleaned).

I keep my vens with nothing but a waterbowl, and three pieces of newspaper. Australian Elapids have a very high metabolic rate, and also show some evidence of what I loosely refer to as marking their territory via defecation. This makes keeping a natural enclosure a taxing task. Natural enclosures for hots create excess danger, without any benefit to the snake... only to the owner. At the same time, though, if a person creates a 'natural' looking environment, and commits the time to keeping it clean, then I don't see excess risk as a problem (at the end of the day, each individual will sum up the risks involved and make his or her own judgement).

Cheers,
Aaron.
-----
Happy Herping

Looks do not define a naturalistic enclosure. In essence, the goal is to make a self sustaining micro habitat. While that would be the perfect setup, we can only come close; thus some maintenence still exists (Feeding, cleaning ect.)

Real plants are a requirement. Microbes are a requirement. Bugs are nice (non-parasitic of course ) Running water is nice, but not a requirement, and as mentioned, is contraindicated in some desert species. The fullest light spectrum possible is also necessary (plant and animal health).

All in all, the enclosure will clean itself. Visit the dart frog forum if you're in need of more detail. Often several years will go by without a full cage cleaning. Obviously as the animals get larger, the size of the enclosure must grow exponentially to maintian an equalibrium. When this is no longer practical, maintenence must increase in the form of spot cleaning. Many species are just ill suited for naturalistic vivarium for most keepers. (Large varanids, large chelonians, "messy snakes like cobras and indigos).

The benefits are often obvious but not hard to imagine. The herp feels like it is at home and not contained. I have a recent experience of noticing some new, natural behavior when I moved my gargoyle gecko into a naturalistic forest vivarium. Head down, body pressed to the branch, and the tail out at an angle to look like a twig. Neeto

Ian

Heres how I keep some rearfangers, I have winders set up in naturalistic enclosures as well, I'll post a picture of it.
Cheers
Brett

What rear-fanged species? Am I correct that you have Lyre's?

Ian

i dont keep hots but i have seen them keept in a naturalistic viv and look quite stunning.

if you google wildsky vivariums theres a setup with a bueatiful looking bluegreen colored bush viper.
-----
"I’m scared of those nasty big-eyed grey aliens, too. I think it’s that I don’t understand their motivations. I am confident of my ability to out-think, out-con, or if need be, tire-iron-upside-the-head demonic forces, ghosts and goblins, things that go bump in the night, etc. It’s the notion of something that doesn’t have any desire to talk to me except via anal probe that freaks me out"