Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Missy had her babies!! I had been watching her on and off. I sat down to do some video editing, went to check on her about 15 minutes later and there they were! The little stinker!! I really didn't think she would have them last night, however I'm glad she had them on one of my nights off. So, I'm not too upset she had them while I wasn't looking

She had 6 Motleys, 3 Supers, and 3 normals. There was also 1 Super-preemie baby that was born dead (it was attached to a large yolk sack)and it was much smaller than the other babies. There were four slugs as well.

She had them on her 104th night past POS. They all seem active and normal, and I haven't seen any kinks. A few have yolk bellies, but they seem to be doing fine. I have only handled them when I changed their paper towels/container......I'm afraid I'll break one.....they are so little and fragile Even so, a couple have already tried to kill my fingers

I am truly blessed with these little ones. This has been a long wait that I have been looking forward to soooo much.

Thank you, Jeremy. It was worth the wait as I watched the parents grow and turn into beautiful, muscular, thriving adults. Murphy and Missy have been a joy to own and handle, and they have been wonderful eye candy!!

Missy is doing fine. She was a little grumpy towards the end of her pregnancy and would issue a hiss when I touched her. However, after the babies were born, she was fine with me taking them and her normal sweet self when I moved her to another enclosure where she enjoyed a juicy rat today.

Thanks for looking! MOTLEYS RULE!!!

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Linda Hedgpeth
lindafh@frontiernet.net
Sierra Serpents

"There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it".

$$$$$$$$$$ lol

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

ill send you my money order for $1000 for one asap .
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THERES NO BEAUTY LIKE THE BEAUTY OF A TRUE REDTAIL

all your hard work paid off. Keep posting those pics please as they grow. AWESOME BOAS! I'm really happy for you, you must be on cloud nine. Brock

Three supers...........THAT'S AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
John
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

Your usually very humble...but there is NO room for being humble with these beauties, so i better see you pull up to the next Daytona show in a Bentley !!!

Great stuff Mizz Linda...GREAT WORK!!!

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Davey Giltner

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Ron Michelotti

Class Reptilia
www.classreptilia.com

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EMAIL

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I'll post some more pics after they shed. They are all dull and crinkly looking right now.........more so than the other babies I have had.

Also, I was able to fix most of my ultrasound/PC image quality problems. I'm getting some really nice video now. The uncompressed footage is almost as good as I'm getting on the ultrasound itself.

I will be ultrasounding Samantha about every two weeks until she is near birth. She is the female I posted pics of, a while back, calling her my trained snake. Each time I ultrasound her, she stretches out and lays very still with her head and neck hooked over the edge of the tub. Hopefully, this cooperative behavior will continue........it might as long as I keep getting the water temp just right

Anyway, I will post links to the video clips of each ultrasound for anyone who is interested in watching the development of the follicles/embryos/fetuses. Of course, this is assuming she is cooking fertilized ova...fingers crossed. Her POS was 10/10 and so far she is doing what she should be. The video clips are better than jpgs because it gives a better idea of how the follicles look and how they are situated inside. As the babies start to show development we can see, it should really be interesting!

I'll try to get this going soon. I think this stuff is fascinating!! There is so much to learn about these marvelous critters!

Thanks again for all your kind words....
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Linda Hedgpeth
lindafh@frontiernet.net
Sierra Serpents

"There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it".

What do the super babys look like they look very dark in the photos. They almost look like CA Motley Supers. Congrats again Vinnie

.....let's see some closeups! Are the supers really patternless? Solid black? I'm glad your wait is finally over and that Mom and the kids are ok.
gray

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you post another pic of the supers? smokin litter. later B

Just beautiful !!!!!! You even got 3 supers wow!!! Thanks for posting for us! Andy

n/p

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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com.

You must be sooo excited. They are just beautiful. Please continue to post pictures of them as they grow. Also the normals from the litter as well. You know I have a fascination with them as well as the visual morphs.

I think this breeding pokes some holes on the "breeding season" theory as well. They are ready when they are ready.

Congratulations and keep us posted.

Kathy

Congratulations Linda! Those look really great!! Can't wait to see more pics of super Motleys!

Tracy/VPI

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np

np

And,based on the numbers,it would appear that the Motley is a true "Co-dominant trait" with a "super" that is phenotypically,consistantly different from the hets?(perfect ratio there,if you discount the stillborn/premie.)...if it was "dominant" there would be "possible supers" in a litter from het x het...
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EMAIL

You mean that the salmon hypo's are dominant. how come most everyone still calls them co-dominant even on thier websites?
could it be that many don't undersand genetics as well as they think they do. Hmmmmmm. LOL me included
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People will say what they want to say, believe what they want to believe. No matter what proof you have to the contrary.
Thats why the more people i meet. the more i like my boas.
Brendan
BCI by Design

I shared what I thought was proper info today on the ball python forum, and was made out to be an idiot, even though I know I am right. Anyway...aparently you can prove out codominance with just one breeding. If a phenotype passes to the offspring, its codom. lol.
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Davey Giltner

it seems those who were so stubborn to learn have stopped posting, lol. I actually saved a detailed explaination on the codominant/dominant issue, with the topic coming up again and again with Hypo/Salmon boas, I got tired of writeing.

I guess those ball python people still call Spiders co-dominant, I mean they show up in F1 (saracasm).

At least I didn't say "in my opinion, codominant is...."
If my information is wrong, I don't mind being corrected. Did you happen to notice if I was pretty much shooting straight, or was I in the wrong? Your view actually DOES matter!
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Davey Giltner

I did see your post, after you mentioned it here. You seem to know what you are talking about. The only thing I would point out is your use of dominant for homozygous animals. An animal isn't dominant or codominant, a mutation is.

Here is a little explaination I wrote before.
When breeding two F1 Hypos together (we are assumeing these are F1, and not from parents that were both Hypomelanistic) you get 25% normal offspring, 25% Homozygous Hypos (Supers), and 25% Heterozygous Hypos (Non-Supers). Remember Hypomelanism is not inherited in a recessive manner, an animal who has one allele for a mutation is heterozygous, if it has a matching pair it is homozygous. This terminology has nothing to do with the phenotype. In Hypomelanistic boas BOTH heterozygous and homozygous individuals HAVE THE SAME PHENOTYPE. For this reason there are "Possible" Supers, because visually there is no phenotypical difference between Supers and the regular Hypos. (Unlike the case with Motley Boas for example). Also, remember that Super is just a slang term us herpers use, and by no means a genetic term. Also, MANY breeders refer to Homozygous Hypomelanistic boas as Dominant, and the others as Co-Dominant. This is incorrect, an animal can not be dominant or co-dominant, the mutation can only be inherited in one way. Because both heterozygous and homozygous boas expressing hypomelanism share the same phenotype the mutation is Dominant in inheritance. If there was a difference between the two the mutation would be co-dominant, like Motley boas (Motley is the Heterozygous form, and the Patternless is the Homozygous form).

I hope this helps you out, it is better to start with the facts. Many Boa breeders who work with Hypos still believe false truths. If you get a chance read Rich Ihle's paper on the Salmon mutation and inheritance.

-->When breeding two F1 Hypos together (we are assumeing these are F1, and not from parents that were both Hypomelanistic) you get 25% normal offspring, 25% Homozygous Hypos (Supers), and 25% Heterozygous Hypos (Non-Supers).

Don't you mean 50% heterozygous?

-->If you get a chance read Rich Ihle's paper on the Salmon mutation and inheritance.

Rich Ihle's paper states that the salmon mutation is caused by an incomplete dominance mutation, not a simple dominant mutation...that is if you are referring to the paper I am thinking of from back in 2000.

Tyler

Yeah, I forgot to fix that typo. It should read 50% Heterozygous 25% homozygous and 25% normal.

Someone above caught it too.

I am referenceing Rich's paper and it does say incomplete dominance. Near the end it mentions the exact results I was talking about. Incomplete dominance, from what I remember, has to due with how the mutation interacts with other genes. The fact that Hypo is not Dominant over EVERY mutation, means it is incomplete (designer mutations can be created with the Hypo, and the mutations are dually expressed).

I am starting to jumble information now, so I'll stop.

Yeah,the article is/was great...it was not meant to be the eleventh commandment though,it's not chisled on a stone tablet...when it was written,I believe that the trait was described to the best of the author's knowledge & ability at that time...as things evolve,and we come to see them more clearly,perception & perspective evolve,and change,as well...the "article" does not control the behavior of the Salmon trait,the Salmon trait classifies itself through its consistant behavior to the contrary of what was written. I remember back when "Jungle" was thought to be "recessive",it re-classified itself through its behavior,with NO "article" at all!!!
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EMAIL

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Ty
Rat Race Solutions
www.ratracesolutions.com

n/p
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Chris & Alliey
website
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I am jumping up and down with excitement over here, and I don't even have a Motley, much less a litter!

The ratio of live babies was PERFECT, and there are just enough to not be too much of a problem to keep them all, although I wnat one!.

Post more pictures of the Supers, those are incredible. I guess this proves that the Super Colombian Motley is definately a patternless as well. How is the color on them?

Linda, a big congratulations to you and thanks so much for sharing a photo with us all.

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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

HUGE Congrats girl! What a fantastic litter of babies. We were over here keeping our fingers crossed for you that there would be some of those gorgeous supers in the litter and sure enough...three of them! I know you must be just thrilled to death! I can't wait to see some more pictures of them, especially as they grow and change.

Congrats again and reproducing what the boa community has been holding its breath for...MORE Super Motleys!!!

Thanks,
Celia
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Celia Chien

www.BoaConstrictorMorphs.com

Celia Chien Photography

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

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Dont be shy with those supers!!!

Linda,

MAJOR CONGRATS!!!!

I know the feeling. Mine this year didn't have any kinks either. I think they are INSANE, and one of the best boas to look at. They just are MINDBLOWING.

You have done an EXCELLENT job. It is well worth the wait!!!! I'm soooooo excited for you.

What a killer site!!!

Jeremy

how about sharing some pictures with us Super Motley deprived people!

CONGRATS!Linda,

It looks like eating your vegies paid off!!Give Murphy a cigar and Missy a kiss for me. LOL. Good things come to thase who wait.

Kevin

:0)
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Gabor Kaminski

holy cow! CONGRADULATIONS Linda!!! those are amazing!!! so are you gonna keep em or sell em?