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I've learned that rustys are the product of leucistic TX rats crossed with the black rats... I'm not interested in doing the work myself but I do love the way they look, and have a question or two.
This photo is of a leucistic TX X generic black rat cross, but he's not rusty..... Does it take several generations of line or back breeding to produce the rustys, or is it something totally different...??

Just curious..

Byron.d

What you are seeing is the same thing that you would see if you crossed a normal Black Rat with a normal Texas Rat. When you have a snake that is homo for the lucistic trait, it still carries its normal skin coloring genes, but a leucistic snake does not produce the pigment cells. So the snake in your photo is hetro for the leucistic trait, but since the trait is recessive, it is not expressed.

Sorry, but I have no idea about the genetics of the rusty colored Black rat.

Rusty black rats are NOT a Leu Texas rat x black rat cross. They are a pure form of the Black Rat, and yes, they are also a product of the leucistic trait (leucistic black rat). A leucistic black rat and a leu Tx rat are very different, and you saw this yourself when you did that cross.

Dewey

myself. The animal in the photo was purchased as a leucistic TX / blk rat cross. That aside, I've heard from several breeders that the linage of the rusty blk rat has been traced back to having TX rat (leucistic) blood in it...

For me.... If it is pure blk rat - awesome! If not, so be it. I still dig 'em. regardless!

thanks.

byron.d

I think that some breeders crossed with the texas rat for leucistic and then the leucistic black rat popped up AFTER the cross. I know that Don and I believe Jollif's are both pure black rat.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

But a week ago I had a guy over to buy Rosies. He had provided an adult female obsoleta obsoleta leucistic to a breeder in Marion County (Jolliff's county) Ohio. He had wild caught his in a barn near Sandusky, Ohio. I imagine there may be crosses out there, but I'm comfortable with Jolliff's animals
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Jamie W.

(url)http://rosyboas.tripod.com(/url)

Yes, Jolliff has pure black rats. His came from Darin Bell's stock, who obtained that original WC female Leucistic from Matt Meade (I think his name is Matt). However, there is dispute over another strain of Leucistic black ratsnakes from the Baltimore County Maryland area. This strain supposedly came from a WC Rusty black ratsnake. While this strain is disputed due to personal conflits between individuals, if you consider the genetics in this strain, it proves to be a pure strain as well. Mike Jolliff pointed this difference out to me a long time ago. But these two strains have never been crossed together to see what happens. Both strains of leucistic produce their own unique form of "rusty". And both rusties have proven to act the same way, but again, these two have never been crossed with each other. I am working on the rusty rusty cross next year (Rouch and Bell strains), and a buddy of mine (who got his stock from Darin Bell as well as Rouch) is doing the leucistic cross. He has both blood lines, but never crossed them because of the debate about Larry Rouch and the Maryland strain being impure. His cross combined with mine should reveal a lot about these two strains of leucistic. Hope this helps a little bit.

Dewey

explains alot, and clears up some confusion about the strain.

thanks again.

Do you know what became of Matt Meade? Thanks! John Meltzer-RJ Reptiles.

I dunno...I could probably hunt him down if it was absolutely necessary. Did you need something from him?

Dewey

That's ok. We were friends a long time ago and I always wondered what happened to him. Thanks! John

Yes I do. He was at my house last month to buy a couple of Rosies. He told me the Ohio regs are so restrictive, he has chosen to avoid species native to Ohio. He does know a bit about some of the species native to Ohio, such as eastern fox, etc. He frequents NOAH events (Cleveland). He knows Norm Damm, at least as an aquaintance. He's a 30 year herp hobbyist deserving of the respect (if any)that entitles him.
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Jamie W.

(url)http://rosyboas.tripod.com(/url)