Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i have a 11 month old, possibly wild caught senegal chameleon. up until about a month ago he was great. he stopped eating completely. i put crickets in there check every day and replace them when they eventually die. he is so skinny, you can see basically his entire bone structure. i treated him with dewormer they very smallest amount but nothing has changed. ive added vitamin supplements to his water but he barely seems interested in it as with before he would let me drip water right into his mouth from a spray bottle. he barely opens his eyes usually none or only one are open, i cleaned his eyes with repti-rinse, no change. one day his vent was crusty so i calened it with a q tip and water. where he usually goes to the bathrrom i have found no droppings at all. does anyone have any suggestions? i can never find people that specifically own senegal chameleons. i never really handle him i used once in a great while so he was OK with me but never excessivly handled him. please anyone with suggestions. i really dont want him to die and i feel bad saying this but i cant afford to take him to a vet, the repti- vets here are extremely expensive plus it might stress him out to death to take him out and mess with him. right now hes in a 40 gallon hex tank with corkbark, fake vine and a live ficus tree just to give you somemore info. thanks

He's in really bad condition, and unfortunately his setup and probably the care information you got is the problem. Almost all Senegals are wc unless you got it directly from a breeder. They are heavily parasitized and usually not treated before sale. If the dose of med you gave him was not correct or repeated at the correct interval chances are it didn't do much other than add stress.

There is a lot of basic cham care that applies regardless of what species you have. Chams do very poorly in tanks for several reasons. The tank tends to be too small, too uniformly warm, there is no air exchange, and the constant reflections in the glass stress them. Chams don't understand why they can't walk through the glass and can spend hours pawing at it. They stress if they don't have areas to hide from view. You didn't describe the temperatures (day and night, chams need a 10-15 degree drop in temp at night) type of lighting (the brand is important!), day and night light cycle (NO lights at night, even the "night heat" types), tank humidity level, how he gets water, what you are dusting the crix with and how often. He is probably suffering from long term dehydration, stress, and nutritional problems. At this point the forum can't do a lot to help, but I can give you advice about changing his setup. It may be too late for him though, so be warned. You really need a vet, so if you can't afford this I'm afraid this was not a good pet choice for you. Most pet chams need a vet at some point so you have to be prepared for this no matter what.

Anyway, by the time chams act like this they are really far gone. You need to get him out of the tank and into some type of screen (even a bird cage would be better...can you borrow one?) cage full of live bushy plants. The plants give security, help keep the cage humidity higher, and give places for him to lick droplets of water off of. Chams don't drink out of dishes as they don't see the unmoving water. So, adding anything to a dish of water won't help. To help rehydrate him you could put him in a bushy plant in your shower and let the shower run at a mildly warm temp for 20 minutes at least. Aim the spray so it bounces off the shower wall and then hits the plant so he can move in or out of the lower pressure spray. The higher humidity and constant dripping water may get him drinking. You need proper lighting such as the UVB producing tube light ReptiSun 5.0. It is safe and effective unlike many other lights on the market. Can you give him time outside in sunlight for even an hour a day? It is possible to overdose the calcium and vitamin dusts on food so we need to know how often you use them and what they are. Do you feed your crix? All the dust in the world won't help if the crix themselves are not healthy. They need to be gutloaded well several days before they are fed.

I'm sorry this sounds pretty bleak, but he's really in trouble. For more info on cham keeping (much of this applies to Senegals whether they are specifically mentioned or not) check these sites:

http://www.adcham.com
http://www.chameleonjournals.com
http://www.chameleonnews.com

This is just so sad and so horrible. I genuinely feel bad for Noodletuesday and his poor chameleon. I think it's such a tragedy that pet stores can sell these WC senegals to the unsuspecting consumer. Knowing so little about the care of chameleons and seeing these fascinating little creatures in the pet shop- it's so tempting to purchase one without knowing EXACTLY what you're getting yourself into.
Noodle- I do feel bad for you. I'm sure you would never intentionally mistreat your little friend. But like Carlton said, if he's as sick as you're describing, chances are he's already too far gone for you to be of any help. Taking him to the vet is the only thing that will help him at this point.
Either way this episode ends, please take the time to educate yourself on the proper husbandry and care of chameleons or any other pet you decide to take on. Best of luck to you both.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I'm afraid it doesn't sound good for this poor little chameleon. He needs to see a vet.

As background...I have kept Senegals (and many other chameleons and reptiles) quite a few times for extended periods of times (all wild caught) but never hatched eggs from them.

The following is just my opinion. I'm not a vet and don't intend to give you a diagnosis. I'm just telling you what I have learned from my experience and commenting on a few things that you might want to check into.

You mention that you have added vitamin supplements to his water...I have never done that (not saying that its wrong...just that I can't comment on it). I gutload all my insects and for adults, I dust sparingly with vitamins once or twice a month, with calcium twice a month and with calcium with D3 twice a month. I also use a UV light over the cage and a spotlight (60 watt incandescent).

With Senegals, I have found that the watering is particularly important....I make sure that they drink well every day. They are heavy drinkers (licking drips from leaves, and drinking from the misting that I do as well).

The closed eyes, "caked" vent and lack of eating/pooping indicate that he is very sick IMHO.

You mention that you have bark in his cage. Are any of the pieces small enough that he might have ingested some? You mention that you have a ficus plant in the cage and artificial plants...I always wash (both sides of the leaves) of both real and artificial plants I put into my cages...and I cover the soil of all plants with something that will not impact the chameleon or that will not be able to be ingested (like stones that are too big to fit in the chameleon's mouth). Could he be impacted from ingesting something in his cage?

As for the tank being glass...it can be bad depending on the area or climate that you live in. Many people frown on them, but I have used glass tanks with screen lids for Senegals and other chameleons with good success. It does take some work to have it work properly. (I live in a cold climate that is also dry in the winter and if I were to use a totally screen cage the humidity and the temperature cannot be maintained.)

I hope you will be able to get him to a vet's and that he will survive. Also, please read and learn as much as you can if you intend to buy another chameleon...they are not an easy lizard to keep successfully generally.

thank you guys for all of your advice. here is some more inforamtion on his housing: he has a 50 W halogen light that shuts off completely at night, the vitamins ive added to his water is a D3 supplement, i use calcium supplements on his food maybe once a week and a D3 multivitamin once a week or every other week. there are really no herp vets where i live. ive seen what they do to other animals (i work at a pet store)and all they care about is money they are bad seriously. one thing i noticed thats weird is that everyday he goes down to his food bowl and sits there but doesnt eat. also today something has changed: one of his eyes is sunken in. its kind of black. also that same side of his mouth is all black. im having a hard time deciding whether or not to prolong his suffering. i feel terrible. i really do. i have over 60 reptiles/amphibians and i love all my critters, obviously. but im not foolish enough to hold onto hope for no reason because honestly today i thought he was dead. so i touched him, no response. then he finally moved and showed a sign of life. i do have a screen cage so ill set him up in that tomorrow, although im scared that the stress of moving will do harm.

Re...lighting...I'm not sure that a halogen light produces much UVB and I think it produces a lot of UVA. Perhaps some others on this forum can give you some answers about that....all I can tell you is that I don't use them. I use a regular incandescent light bulb in a hood for warmth such that the cage for a Senegal would be in the low 80's and a ReptiSun 5 for UVB and I've had no problems with calcium/D3 levels in Senegals. (Insect dusting and gutloading are a part of my care for them too.) How hot is the hottest part of the cage? Coolest?

Vitamin D3 (from oral sources) and vitamin A can both build up in a chameleon's system. Beta cartene sources of vitamin A will not build up...preformed can. Calcium can only be used in conjunction with the amount of D3 the chameleon has. Its all a balancing act. Vitamin D3 should not build up to excess if the source is natural (sunlight) generally. Read the articles on ChameleonJournals under vet topics for some good information on this.

You said..."one thing i noticed thats weird is that everyday he goes down to his food bowl and sits there but doesnt eat" is his tongue working?

Sunken eyes are not a good sign and neither is the black you are mentioning. You said..."im having a hard time deciding whether or not to prolong his suffering. i feel terrible. i really do" I understand how you must feel. Its terrible watching this happen. If you do decide to end his suffering, please be sure to do it humanely. Freezing is not an option in my opinion...just in case that's what you may be thinking of doing. Melissa Kaplan had some information on her site about it. You said..."today i thought he was dead. so i touched him, no response. then he finally moved and showed a sign of life"...chameleons can have "nerve responses" similar to snakes and frogs when they are already "dead". When they die, many chameleons take on black splotchy markings. Sorry to be so negative about your poor chameleon.

If you decide to get another chameleon, please read as much as you can about their husbandry and get a captive bred one of a species that is "easier" to keep than Senegals are. They are definitely not one of the easier lizards to keep in captivity.

I agree...the lighting is not correct, and all the D3 he's been getting has been wasted without the correct part of the UVB spectrum. He can't metabolize either the calcium or the D3 properly. The sunken blackened eye and lip is a very bad sign. When chams are close to dying they start losing control of their skin color. You may see large odd patches of either very dark or very light color. Personally I think the kindest thing to do is have him put to sleep. I know it must really hurt to go to one of those vets for this, but unless you can get an injectable anesthetic somewhere else or basically shut down his lights, chill the tank and wait, this would be the kinder thing. At least when a cham is at this point they are not very aware. I'm so sorry.

thank all of you for your advice. by the way, the halogen light is only used for heat i also have a reptisun 5.0 on him half of the day. when i first got him i could barely find any information on senegals! it seems like everything out there is only about veileds jacksons or panthers. why would he just start doing soooo bad right away when hes been fine for almost a year? ive been trying to drip water into his mouth, and hopefully he'll start drinking and eventually eating again. i havent lost ALL hope but im not keeping false hope. he is still moving around to different parts of his cage alot. another problem is that im moving out of state at the end of this month. what would be the best way to move him. i was thinking about moving his cage as is with a sheet around it in my heated car. its a 4 hour drive though. im starting to think that his problem was incorrect vitamin amounts and now its developed into dehydration and whatever is wrong with his eye. its not gooey or anything its just kind of black. it honestly looks better today. also the black on his mouth has gone away. i forgot to mention this before but he was treated for mouth rot about 6-7 months ago. it looked fine on the inside last time i saw it a couple weeks ago. i keep telling myself that i have to make him survive, but i know that sometimes its difficult and/or impossible especially for such a tiny, wild caught critter. thank all of you again. and ill keep you guys posted on his condition. thanks- renee