Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a pic from an old field guide I have. Ive always beeen smitten with this King and it looks like a northern type. Does anybody know if the Conant's filed any info with their pics as to locale of the photo subjects ? I think it looks alot like my Washington DC female.
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Kieth, good looking snake.

How can I contact you? I've tried over the last few days by e-mail and it says the delivery failed.

Sorry Matt I thought I sent you a "change of email" email.
Its getula@sbcglobal.net
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Man, they look nothing alike. Yours has all that yellow where the other one is solid black and white!

Keith,

My guess is that the King is probably a New Jersey specimen. He and Isabelle lived in the Barrens for many years, and became aquainted with every critter, herps and others, that lived there. He also did extensive work in the Delmarva Peninsula, I have a photo of him preserving a DOR Eastern in Delaware, but New Jersey would be my first guess.

Bart

keith it's a real safe bet kings are extirpated from d.c....i know i've discussed this with you via email in the past;i just find it funny/even a little unsettling to see that locale attatched to something that is just not found in said place,at least i know of none since circa 1945....thus i find it misleading....not meant as a criticism,just pointing something out to you....oh yeah-i would guess nj on that photo,but really hard to say-biggest hint being that it was found by conant-and that was his longtime home turf,as someone else mentioned

Dude I didnt collect the snake so no I cant say for sure it came from where its said to come from. That being said the guy has zero reason to lie there was no money exhanged, he isnt a breeder in fact I got it from the guy who he gave the whole clutch to at a Herp Society meeting. So why would he make it up ? The guy who caught the gravid female has sent me many pics from Virginia, Maryland so why all of suuden lie about this ? I also dont know why you wouldnt think that a Eastern couldnt scoot from Virginia into that area ? Just because the female that produced that snake was found there doesnt mean that she lived there her whole life for all we know a hawk may have dropped her or someone let her go there ??? I mean really who the hell knows. Snakes dont stop at county lines and state borders they go wherever they want. Ive graciously explained the whole story to you twice via email and if you choose to believe that snake isnt from DC then fine but I choose to believe that it is. Your insistance that it cant possibly be what it is borderline ignorance as there are no certainties in nature. Here is a pic of the WC mother of that snake.
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Here is a pic John White (the guy you are inferring is lying) sent me a while back of another DC King he photographed in the early 80's I believe he said. I think that vintage Nike gives the era away lol. I dont mean to bust your Balls Justin but John White is a very respected and well known Naturalist and photographer. What are your credentials and what makes you an expert in that area ? Again I will state that I cant guarantee that the snake is what it is Im only taking the word of another person. The gravid female was collected legally (believe me I asked) as well also that info also relayed to me by John White in case there is any question.

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ok will,first of all-not calling anyone a liar-but when i requested the background info in the past on these kings,while i appreciated your cooperative response,it left me wanting...second ,that is a nice and intruiging(?) loooking king,esp the one in the first post....what credentials do i have?i'm just heavily into herping(anywhere i can,not just where i live) and keeping c.b. colubrids esp. lampropeltines....locality data is important and interesting info to me(though i think it's being a little overstressed lately regarding certain species,like you said when it comes to county-by-county,esp. when there are no natural boundaries separating such counties/districts,i.e. of course a county line means little to a snake crawling across it)...however,the potomac river separates va. from d.c.,and as you probably know that is no small stream,though i am aware kings are decent swimmers,indeed i more often than not find them close to water-though not usually rivers,more like swamps or creeks-permanent and/or slow-moving bodies...i know they could still cross this river in spots-but on the va. side is terrain ranging from full residential development dating to the 1800's(=nearly total habitat destruction), to at best a very narrow band of natural terrain-rocky cliffs,more vertical than flat...what snakes are found there?aside from natricines,lampropeltis t. triangulum,agkistrodon contortrix,elaphe obsoleta....(notice the first two have very small home ranges;the latter has simply been able to survive in developed areas thus far...all 3 are usually found in this type of rocky terrain;i have never found a king in such terrain,nor do i hear much about that happening.... and i was born in the district(spare me the wisecracks,thanks,lol),have lived in and/or around this area for all my 32 years,and have been doing whatever herping can be done here for better than 20 years,with a grand total of zero kings found in the district proper,much to my dismay....i know the district very well-and of course kings occured here in the fairly recent past,i have records of this myself(most recent one i can find claims circa 1945)....bottom line,will,i know it's a possiblity they occur in d.c.;i never said it was not.....i just said,and still do feel,it's a good bet they are now extirpated from there...i hope as much as you do that they are still hanging in there,how cool would that be?....i can see how me calling it 'misleading' could have been taken as a slight,or me challenging someone's honesty,etc...not my intention at all...i simply meant,TO ME,it implies that they have in fact been found there more recently than any specimens have been(AS FAR AS I KNOW-and let me be the first to say,indeed there may have been!),and others may get that impression as well....ok,hope this clarified what i was trying to say,will...justin

n/p

Im not from that area nor have I ever been there so I really dont know what it looks like (habitat wise). I have zero grasp on the animals found there other than what Ive learned online and from others. I believe you in that you havent found any Kings there Im sure if they are there they are few and far between. On my site I do have pics from Kings from surrounding area's and I just dont think its that big of a stretch that one gets there are a small population still exists there or is even trying to re-establish itself there. I see you feel strongly on the subject as thats your neck of the woods and I respect that.

Keith
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They do not come from Virginia but from Maryland.

D.C. was carved out of Maryland, look at the map. The attached photo is from a wild caught male from 8 miles north of the D.C. line (I found him March 0f '03 in Burtonsville, MD). The eastern kingsnakes can be found in the Anacostia watershed including Northwest branch, Rock Creek, and Paint Branch and along the C&O canal. They can also be found in Prince George's, St. Mary's, Charles, Montgomery, Howard, Harford, Baltimore, Calvert, and Anne Arundel counties. The D.C. locality is just a subset of the Maryland western shore population.

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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

yeah bob,i was hoping to hear from you on this one,i thought of the ones you have found in md. you told me about...i know that kings are not uncommon in md,and of course like you said there are no natural boundaries other than heavily trafficked roads separating md from dc...yes surrounding md does have some nice looking king habitat-much lower and swampier than adjacent va...,esp. to the south....i have only found and heard of kings being found outside of a good 5-10 miles outside the district;and the only recent find by me was a whole 2 counties away from d.c....again,i never said it's impossible-there's no way to be 100% sure they're not present,it's like proving a negative-but i think you'd agree i have very good reson to suspect they are in fact extirpated from this longtime & heavily developed area....now the one you have from burtonsville?that's another story....like you said,8 miles removed...plus,though that area is getting hit hard lately too by the bulldozer,it had some pretty nice looking habitat as recently as,say,10 -15 years ago.and in the other direction(to the north,as well the east) are(were?) still more pockets of lesser developed terrain,suitable for a king(sorry,couldn't resist that one,lol).....so basically you have a 'moat' if you will-suburbs with hi-density population and the auto traffic that is among the worst in the nation along with it,surrounding washington;bordered on the west by the potomac,and more suburbs beyond that;in the middle is a full-fleddged city with a long history of well-settled development,and i will furthermore go out on a limb as to label a large faction of it's residents as surely being 'non-herp' people,lol...and in the middle is a sliver of relatively untouched habitat(rock creek park) sliced it's full lengtht right up the gut by yet another heavily trafficked road,rock creek pkwy and several offshoots....bob(and keith,of course)-let me clarify my point in all this rambling is not to simply debate fro the sake of nit-picking and arguing-not at all-but this is rather an important and very interesting topic to me...like a commrade said to me when i was discussing this post with him-i liked his analogy- 'finding a king in d.c. now would be like finding a tasmanian tiger'...lol,well,that may be a little over the top,but i see his point...by all means ,i hope they are there,but i just need mor convincing,considering my humble knowledge of the area,and kingsnakes too for that nmatter....btw bob have you heard of any other specimens any closer to,if not in d.c. itself?.p.s. that king you sved is a beauty

Justin, we need to setup a spring herping trip to Rock Creek Park (leave the dead bodies alone), Anacostia Park and along the C&O. If we find some kings we'll get good pictures and if we don't we'll have to schedule another trip maybe some other forum members would like to participate. I don't think they're gone YET, but I'm an optimist when it comes to nature holding on.
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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

Hey guys don't forget rock creek park is all federal land .....I know there e.kings in RCP and the C/O canal area. I caught a baby yrs ago north of the NZP...While fishing at chain bridge a few yrs ago I heard the buzzing sounds of a rattler I didn't find him and I looked for a minute then went back fishing I was inside the D.C. boundaries.
Later Dre'

Federal land = pictures . DRE drop me or Justinian an email.
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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

hit me at justinian2120@hotmail.com....ttyl

that's cool...but timbeers,that's a whole 'nother ball of wax...but of course it could've been anything vibrating it's tail...i have found agkistrodons in rcp,but that's it a far as pit vipers....sure are some nice lookingspots,indeed very timber-esque in appearence....man i wish you could've confirmed that sighting one way or another!...you know,you'd think we'd see an occasional dor thru r.c.p.,or hear about it....plenty of the roadsd do get good sun desopite the tall and fairly full canopy.

Bob, I dont think that is exactly what they are arguing. BTW 8 miles nrth of DC is still silver spring. Burtonsville is actually about 10 miles. I live off of Briggs Chaney rd and still have a silver spring address(Like that matters anyway). My point is that your animal is a Montgomery county specimen. I've never heard of a specimen being collected out of any part of Rock Creek park in the past sixty years. C&O sounds beleivable, especially the area near Fletcher's. However, I've never heard of any getula specimen collected there. I think JC's point is more that getula does not tolerate development well, therefore he doesn't beleive they exist in DC proper any longer.However, If you want to include surrounding suburbs you could also include Arlington and Fairfax county.

I agree that the area is developed and fragmented. I still feel that adequate habitat and food exists to support a couple of small populations. In early summer 2000 I found a DOR juvenile on MD 210 just south of Kerby Hill Rd.
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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
2.2 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. het peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic
0.1 L.t.hondurensis hypo-melanistic

nice bob...that's a good sign,seeing one around that zekiah swamp area...there's some good looking terrain there still,just fragmented like you said....but crossing MD-210? that poor baby king never stood a chance,lol....yeah i think i misaplced your e mail address bob....i would surely look forward to meeting for a local herping romp/survey/experiment,what have you...we should talk,would you mind giving me your address again?