Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please see the post in the Herp Law forum about HB 339 from 2005, which will be re-filed in January, when it will receive a new number.

Currently alligators and crocodiles are illegal in MD, but HB 339 would add caimans and false caimans to the list. Grandfathering would be allowed, though, for caimans currently in the state. Some delegates on the Judiciary Commmittee are in favor of a permit system (which might make alligators and crocodiles legal with a permit). So, if you live in MD, and would be affected by this bill, you might want to contact the members of the Judiciary Committee of the House of Delegates. The websites with all of this information are posted in the Herp Law forum.

Katrina

I believe it's for far more than crocs.... A couple of us were going to go down for a reading of the bill, but you can't voice your opinion or say anthing at that point. We'll just have to wait until later and show up in force like last year. There's one woman on the board who will continue to propose it every year.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
1.0 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Hmmm...rereading the new one, it's only for venomous snakes. While I agree about monkees because of the disease factor, crocs is odd....
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
1.0 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

If you let them win too easily on one, you are giving them more power. Captive bred primates are no more of a health threat than our herps are. But regardless, if you give them an inch they will take a mile. Primates, Tigers, Wolves, whatever...they are all exotics. They consider them all in the same category. We have to support each other, regardless what you or I may have against one particular group.

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

View my website: www.herpfanatic.com

You are absolutely right. One of the strategies that people use to ban things (lots of things, not just exotic pets) is to slowly ban them a piece at a time. Usually they suceed in banning the things they can most easily convince the naive public to be the most dangerous first (crocodilians, assault weapons, ect.) but their goal is to eventually ban the entire hobby.

Well, I was also led to believe that a Judiciary briefing did not allow testimony, but to my surprise, testimony WAS the main part of the breifing! And, I think the HSUS knew this ahead of time, because there were three of us against the bill, and nine for it, and we all testified! The other two testifying against the bill were from a private zoo and a member of a cat fanciers association that delt with hybrid cats (Savannahs, Bangals, ect.)

Crocodiles, alligators, and most venemous snakes have been illegal in MD for years. For the reptile people, the caiman is the new addition to the law, if this gets passed. Actually, the current law bans cat and dog hybrids (wolf x dog, cat x wild cat), and this bill would make those legal, if the cat hybrid was less than 30 lbs. Sooo, there are good points and bad points to the law.

Katrina

"Captive bred primates are no more of a health threat than our herps are."

Not true...Many diseases are carried by primates that carry to us human primates. HIV being one. Herps don't carry rabies. Besides, I'd never keep an animal as a pet that would throw it's poop at me

And that surprises me about the testimony. It's not supposed to happen at a simple bill reading.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
0.1 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
1.0 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Yes, primates, can carry SIV, similar to HIV, hepatitis, and many other diseases that are easily transmittable to humans that herps don't carry.

As for the testimony, it was a Judiciary briefing, not a bill reading. It was the first time I've ever been to one of those, so I was caught off guard, but it really wasn't any different than the committee hearings I've attended during the regular sessions of the MD General Assembly, when bills are voted upon. Actually testimony was allowed to run longer at the briefing.

Katrina

You are missing the point. Captive bred and healthy animals are not a health issue....no more than a captive bred dog. These are ALL exotic animals. They are not going to exempt reptile keepers and tell other exotics NO. The fact that the animals CAN carry a variety of different diseases is totally beside the point. A respectable and responsible primate keeper would be no different than a respectable and responsible herp keeper when it comes to making sure that there animals are healthy and all vet checks are done regularly. The fact of the matter is that you can't fight a war if you keep making enemies. We are all in this together.

Chris

>>"Captive bred primates are no more of a health threat than our herps are."
>>
>> Not true...Many diseases are carried by primates that carry to us human primates. HIV being one. Herps don't carry rabies. Besides, I'd never keep an animal as a pet that would throw it's poop at me
>>
>> And that surprises me about the testimony. It's not supposed to happen at a simple bill reading.
>>-----
>>1.1 Blackheaded pythons
>>1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
>>2.1 Aussie Olives
>>1.1 Timors
>>1.0 Angolan Juvie
>>1.1 Savu
>>1.1 Juvie Bloods
>>1.1 Juvie Balls
>>1.1 IJ Carpets
>>1.1 Coastal Carpets
>>1.2 Macklotts
>>1.1 Papuan Olives
>>0.1 Jungle Carpet
>>2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
>>1.0 Jungle/Diamond cross
>>0.1 child, CB
>>0.1 wife, WC
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

"The fact that the animals CAN carry a variety of different diseases is totally beside the point."

No, to the people proposing the ban it IS the point. You forget that they don't think like we do. They will have plenty of testimony to attempt to prove that you are wrong, especially with the Avian Flu scare coming up.

Katrina...a couple of us were told by people "in the know" that there would be no testimony allowed, so we didn't go. At least 5 of us would have gone. This kind of thing has been going on for years. They were trying it 20 years ago.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

"A respectable and responsible primate keeper would be no different than a respectable and responsible herp keeper when it comes to making sure that there animals are healthy and all vet checks are done regularly. "

And who determines who a responsible keeper is? Your reasoning is too simplistic. Remember....you're going up against a state government...and one particular delegate with an agenda.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC