Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We are here to learn and educate. At least I am. Sometimes there is too much emphasis being placed on how a question was posted as opposed to answering the question. We are all different, with different backgrounds and experience (animal husbandry as well as computer literacy) - not to mention age diversity. Many, arguably poor questions are asked repeatedly but looking at it this way, I'd rather see a dumb repeated question than to have an animal harmed or killed by someone afraid to ask a question. Sure, a little research goes a long way but we don't know what the level of computer competency is for some folks. Or age for that matter. Do you want to turn little 10 year old Timmy away from herps because YOU didn't like the question or the way it was posted, or lack of research or whatever suits your displeasure?

If you can answer the post respectfully, then do so. If not, I'm sure there are more important things you can do with your time other than being overly critical. Let's do what this forum intended: educate and learn.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Just as scams are obvious as hell, sometimes posts make it obvious that the person posting is in it for reasons other than love of snakes. The worst thing in the world is when someone gets a herp either because it's "cool" or "wierd" or solely to profit. These kinds of people get a snake or a lizard or whatever, find out that it is work to take care of it and then when the novelty wears off or they realize that it takes a long time to even break even, the animal gets neglected and dies. Or you end up with the burmese situation in the everglades. That is why some posts make some of us angry. Still, you are right about tolerence being important too.
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1.1 Balls (1.0 het clown 0.1 normal)
1.1 Kittys and
0.1 WC Human
"I need evaluation...and dinner; and by dinner I don't meen gnome heads!"

The fact of the matter is, you have NO IDEA why people buy their animals and you or anyone else for that matter has the right to judge them just because of the way they choose to word their question or the questions that they choose to ask on a PUBLIC forum for people who all share a common interest.

Some people just seem to enjoy being condescending smarta$$es to those who may not know as much as them about a particular subject. I never could understand that mentality.

I am a "newbie." I actually became interested in Ball Pythons over 3 years ago when my son was babysitting his girlfriends snakes. The one that I fell in love with was a Albino. I have since purchased 4 Ball Pythons: Albino, Normal, Pastel and Het Albino and I love them all dearly but my Normal is closest to my heart and the first one purchased.

I do a lot of research, but I do know that books are not always right and neither are people, so my strategy is to read, read, read, and ask, ask, ask and the answer is somewhere in between the book and the answer on the forum . I do not claim to be an expert, but sometimes I feel that I know the answer and why not post in reply to someone's question? Those that know more than I can always correct me and everyone learns. I do know that not everyone has the ability to accept constructive criticism and that's sad. I have no problem being corrected, I do; however, have a problem with being verbally abused or condesended to.

I just wanted to give the "newbie's" perspective and I don't claim to speak for all, but I am sure some of them may have the same feelings that I have. We want to ask questions, we also want to put the newfound knowledge that we have obtained to use. I have usually been careful to give credit where credit is due. For example: some of my first advisors were DaemoNox, Misskiwi67, Shrap and many others whose advice I respect, and those that have taken the time to email me privately. I really appreciate ALL the assistance that I have received. I love my babies and they are very healthy and growing.

Just wanted to say THANKS to all of you for your time and patience with us "newbies" and please remember, we won't be newbies for long.
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Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things!"

1.0.0 (normal) Gandalf
1.0.0 (100% het albino) Aragorn
0.1.0 (albino) Galadriel
0.1.0 (pastel) Phoenix (Firebird)

http://photos.yahoo.com/phenomenon20002

Although emotion and tone do not normally come accross in a typed medeum, there is much one can gleen from a post by the content and context.
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1.1 Balls (1.0 het clown 0.1 normal)
1.1 Kittys and
0.1 WC Human
"I need evaluation...and dinner; and by dinner I don't meen gnome heads!"

A few people here only answer post just to say something negative. Ive looked back and cant find one positive thing they have said to anyone.

Well Gary, the reason you may not have found anything "nice" on my behalf is because I recently changed usernames.. My old name was gotboids18 and I've commented, answer as many questions as I could correctly and posted questions of my own as well.. Maybe I picked up a different "feeling" when I read the breeding question.. I look at it like this, I haven't been doing this as long as an 1/8 of you people, I've been around a little over a year, but in that small amount of time I've attempted to learn AS MUCH information possible, spent a MINIMUM of 3hrs/night since I've been interested, almost jeopardized my 6yr relationship with the mother of my child because I was too "interested" in snakes.. Now, after all that sweat and hardwork, I've got 50 snakes or so, I know how to take care of them, breed them and I understand market fluctuation.. It PISSES me off when I see Tom Dick come in and cut straight to the monetary point, to me it was an insulting question from an ignorant person.. Geeze, I know MOST of this is driven by MONEY, but was it really like that when you started out?? NOPE Bash me all ya want..
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Joe Lydon

NEWBIES!!! ASK AWAY!! Yep, I'm a jerk, and here's a perfect example of me shutting out yet another possible enthusiast.. Not to mention all the questions I answer in AOL instant message..

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=928985,928985
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Joe Lydon

You're a dick. I feel sorry for any woman that has to live with you. She should be happy you spend your life blowing your own horn on the computer. Then she doesn't have to deal with you herself. You are one newbie that unfortuantely WON'T shut up and go away. Moron.

That was very tactful, don't be mad at me because you're a loser.. If you'd like to talk down on me, have something to back up your statements other than childish behavior. Your character rings true in everything you say.. All this because you were hurt after you asked if I wanted to purchase your hog island boas and I refused.. Grow up.
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Joe Lydon

This thread was started to welcome newbies and vetrans alike. Too many pople on this forum and others alike, are ready to jump down everyones throat, they dont care who the question was directed to or what the actual question was. I may be wrong but this thread started out on a welcoming freindly tone, and a few posts into it you aleady have those people coming out of the wood work and bashing people that were just writting personal opinions. Is it that hard to try and keep some of our comments to our self. I can see where some of the comments come from, yes, things can become debates easily, but some things are just ridiculous. I completley agree with the first post and i hope your kind words will do exactlly what they were intended to do.

What about joking? I'm curious about how this comes across to posters? In general, I find it somewhat humorous when people get heated over little things, and often in an attempt to ease the tension, post "stupid"/humorous posts, just being sarcastic. I'm curious as to how people respond to these..."Keep it going, no harm done" or "Shut up, you idiot!"
Jeremy
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Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

Unfortunately, that is lost when typing a message. I like to use emoticons to indicate my jokes.

It's also nice for people to try and be a bit less defensive. What you think is an insult, might not be.

Can't we all just get along???
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I love the joke posts. Sucks when some one can't take a joke.
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1.1 Balls (1.0 het clown 0.1 normal)
1.1 Kittys and
0.1 WC Human
"I need evaluation...and dinner; and by dinner I don't meen gnome heads!"

but there are ways to tell people you offended them and ways to just be a jerk about it. Hopefully we will all strive to be the second!

or was it the first?
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

I still view post every once and a while. Lets be honest this is the most used forum and I see pictures that I normally would not see if I didn't. About a year ago I became fed up with this exact thing. As well as too many know it all's and too much information coming from any Joe Schmo at his computer sounding like they have been in the business for 20 years. I have found other methods of aquiring my information. Take all information with a grain of salt when posting here or any forum. My suggestion, find a true breeder or group of breeders you trust and use them as a source of answers to all of your questions. This is not to say there are not good people and great breeders on this forum because there are. Its just too hard to figure out the good from the bad (information). Anyway, good luck to all!

-Bill

I was always told there are no stupid questions, or the only stupid question is the one not asked, But here it looks as if that is not how people feel.

I say ask away!!!!

Well put,I dont respond alot to this forum,most of the time I read it for entertainment.There are alot of self made experts on this forum.

If you think there are a lot of self proclaimed experts in this forum, try the grayband forum. Those guys argue and cut down one another more than the ball python folks.
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1.1 Jungle Carpet Python
1.1 Ball Python
1.1 Corn Snake
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
0.1 Pueblan Milksnake
1.0 Bullsnake
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback (Hondo)
0.1 Spouse (WC)
0.0.8 hatchling ball pythons

I like answering the easy questions because it's the only way I can post on the forums! I don't have any awesome morphs to post pics on, I don't have an awesome website (yet), nor do I have notoriety to be the one to get questions by e-mail. I like knowing what I know and helping people. It is sad that there are people out there that get tired, but I LOVE helping people, so I will continue to answer the same questions over and over again because I KNOW THE ANSWER! It's better than having a Newb kill or harm their snake due to ignorance. At least they are asking! That means progress!

YAY QUESTIONS!!!
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-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

I run a forum for a completely unrelated hobby. Just like this forum, theres a compliment of questions that are asked a bazillion times, and it is clear that the vets are tired of answering them. We ended up making FAQs (frequently asked questions) that we could politely refer the new members to. So, imagine this:

"I'm new to BPs, what temperature should I keep my BP?"

"Welcome to the forum. Please check our FAQ (insert link here), #5 should answer your question."

This saves a lot of time and grief, it also helps newer members get up to speed quickly. Then, more energy and bandwidth can be spent on newer topics. One challenge I see is that it appears not everyone here agrees on numerous BP related topics, so perhaps the FAQ could be a bit broader and offerthe reader arguments for the various sides of the argument, so they can come to their own conclusion. It could be a lot of work, but it might save time in the long run.

Though I am not new to forums or snakes, I am still new to BPs and this forum. So, I can kind of see both sides (what it's like to be a veteran to a forum, and what it is like to be new to s subject or community). It can be a little intimidating at first, as you're clearly an outsider and unsure how to ask a question in a manner that will appeal to the more experienced members. It's frustrating to think that my BP could suffer because I did not phrase something properly, despite my best intentions.

One last bit (sorry for the long post!), though I like to joke around a lot in person, humor is tricky on the 'net. It's hard to read a persons tone, especially sarcasm. The, throw in the fact that not everyone's first language is English... so, sometimes you've got to be a bit more obvious.

Hope this is of some use. I (and my BP) appreciate the access to this community.

With all the things going on in the world today and all the things going on with your life and personal life, you mean to tell me that you or "joe the new kid" is scared to ask a question? I don't mean to be rude or arrogant but serriously If Ive looked and looked and searched and searched and still nothing? I'm going to ask my question... This is the internet no one can "hurt me" or "scare me", I don't get picked on by internet folks that are here everyday just for asking a question. People should be more angry with the people that ask questions but never come back after they got a million replies. Maybe they do come back and look but most of the time thats not true and they dont even post to say thanks or post to say "I read everything", Now thats a waste of time... People just need to deal with other people asking questions that they answered last week or leave the forums. Like I said if I need to ask a question I'll ask it, bigger things going on than a snake forum (not saying that this place isn't important for new herp people).

...but I'll answer it as if it was.

I'm not afraid of asking questions, but the BP under my care has something to lose if I can't get the answers I need. I try hard to ask my questions intelligently (without taking up too much of the readers' time) and receive answers graciously, but it seems that some folks (not the majority, mind you) seem to be easy to set off for unforeseeable reasons. They miss the big picture... they aren't just burning the original poster, the BP suffers as well. So, that is why I am cautious about how and what I ask.

I do agree that it is frustrating to put effort into giving an answer to someone and not receiving as much as a thank you. I think the anonymity of the net makes some people forget that human beings are on the other side of the conversation.

It's not always an issue of being afraid or intimidated. If I have a serious question, I'll ask. However, there are often smaller things that I wouldn't mind bouncing off of other people, but I don't want to clutter the forum. Most people who come here don't need to hear that my ball python finally defecated for the first time over two weeks after I brought her home. They don't need to know that she excavated a hole under her water bowl and hid there for two days and made me wonder whether I'd done something that scared her into leaving her usual places in the cage. When I fed her last week, the rat pinkie came in a little box that I lowered into her cage and left. After eating the pinkie, she stayed in the box for a day or so. Between her staying in the box and digging under the water bowl, I wonder whether she's trying to tell me that she needs more hiding places. I thought about posting the question, but for now, I'm just going to watch her for a bit longer and see what she does. I'm also planning to add another hide or two anyway. If the question remains after I've had her longer, I'll probably ask it.

For most of us who've been on forums, we recognize that each forum has its own "culture." On some forums, people post many little things. Those forums can be fun, but they tend not to grow because the same few friends fill the forum with posts about "inside" things that happen among them. On the other hand, a forum that tries to be too serious won't grow because newcomers feel that their questions don't belong. The right balance is tough to strike. I appreciate the original post here because it encourages new people to ask the questions that need asking.

Bill

I don't care about inside forum "cliques", in's and out's, Up's and downs. Everyone deserves to ask a question. I mean If they have read books, researched etc. and still have questions then ask. I really don't care about anyones little forum guru's and stuff like that. When they have something to say I certainly listen and take everything they say into consideration but I don't allow them to control me and my thoughts. Got a question that fits the criteria (sp?) of a certain forum? ASK. I may not get many replies if I post a question a week or 2 from now but I really don't care, I'll go to another forum or site to ask. Some people think that because they are guru's of a certain forum they can stomp on the little guy for asking "what makes co-dominant", and "whats the probabilities of such and such". Like I said I don't have to conform to a forums leaders just to the TOS.

well, that saves a lot of time!

maybe people could call more attention to it when new members ask a question that can be answered by it. If other things get repeatedly asked, the FAQ could be amended. Just a thought.

If you'd like to receive questions or comments by e-mail, I'd be glad to send them. I'm sure that you have more experience than I do, and I think there's benefit simply to talking (or writing) through a problem with someone else who's interested. One experienced person here has been helping me through e-mail, and I appreciate her help tremendously. However, it's always fun to get advice from as many people as possible.

Bill

There is a learning curve for those doing the answering too.Newbies from two years ago,one year ago...and now.

Which is what makes it possible for newbies to get basic husbandry questions answered...Without e-mailing Ralph Tracy or Bob. lol
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Jay,

It is ironic seeing this posting from you. Since I have gotten on this board I know I have offended some and have been offended, but you sir I have always held in high regards (as I do some others too) you have always been polite and informational to me (and others from what I have seen) and I have been meaning to thank you for your kind replies and for never being judgemental towards me! Thanks for giving me the perfect chance to!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

No problem, a little kindness goes a long way...And thats to newbs and veterans alike.

Oops That shouldn't be for me LOL, everyone calls me jay, sorry for that all credit towards jmartin for being on this board and helping everyone. Wish you could delete posts on here.

LOL, not a problem, same goes for you though you've help me too! As for deleting the posts, everyone makes mistakes, isn't it more fun to laugh at them instead of sweeping it under the rug?
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Thanks! It's tough but I'm trying to unite instead of divide. We have too much division in this world already. We are a forum and more importantly, a community. I can be a real azz sometimes, but I prefer helping others.

Thanks again!
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

...and that's a fact of life. However I base my business decisions on 4 main points:

1) Quality of the animals
2) Quickness of information exchange
3) Pride & Enthusiasm in what they do
4) Attitude & correctly applied TACT when posting

Although the BC forum is my favorite, I watch numerous forums & the people who post; It doesn't take long to figure out who to do business with and who to avoid.

Having a FAQ is great, but it’s also GREAT practice to have people answer the same questions. Like the old saying goes, “The best way to learn is to teach.” It seems like perhaps the people who get irritated by repeated questions have forgotten this truism. It’s okay to let others answer a few, it helps their knowledge & it helps the new person who’s doing the asking.

My peeve is when I see some questions posted in the forum go unanswered altogether as that can be as discouraging as a cruelly worded post. I try to lend a hand when I can, but some are beyond what I know. If the question needs clarification then a good reply is to ask for it. I do see a lot of helpful people here & I think the kind people who continue to put themselves out there for others are on the right track as far as building a reputation that anyone can be proud of… after all each person here is building their own reputation, whether they like it or not right?

Just my .02- Deb @ NorthernRegius.com