Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Tri-color 3 mo. old. clicking , head raised. One vet said to keep her at 85 to 87 temp and dry no water bowl and on paper towel . The other vet said to keep her in incubator 100% humidity at temp of 85. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Tom.

I believe what you have here are two opposite extremes, neither one of which I recommend. Generally, you want to reduce moisture to treat respiratory infections. I don't understand the 1st recommendation of removing the water bowl. I seriously doubt that a modest sized bowl will contribute significantly to the relative humidity. As you may now, a respiratory infection is a very serious illness for a snake. The last thing you want is for the snake to get dehydrated while it is fighting off life-threatening infection! Water bowls are typically a source of pathogens for captive herps, so it becomes imperative you keep it clean! Bleach it 3 times a week.

The 2nd recommendation is off-base. High humidity? Only 85? I think temps should be in the 90s, especially for something native to the tropics. Maybe Jim McDonald has some recommendations. I am including a link to my post on hognose temps, which has some very applicable parts.
Click here for the link...

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If there is a just God, how humanity would writhe in its attempt to justify its treatment of animals. - Isaac Asimov

Human industry has been in full swing for a little over a century, yet it has brought about a decline in almost every ecosystem on the planet. Nature doesn't have a design problem. People do.
William McDonough, architect and designer, Sierra Club magazine

So are you saying higher temp water bowl and dry paper beading ?

Tom

>>So are you saying higher temp water bowl and dry paper beading ?
>>
>>Tom
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If there is a just God, how humanity would writhe in its attempt to justify its treatment of animals. - Isaac Asimov

Human industry has been in full swing for a little over a century, yet it has brought about a decline in almost every ecosystem on the planet. Nature doesn't have a design problem. People do.
William McDonough, architect and designer, Sierra Club magazine

np.

I have been using this method and it works really well. Crush up a vitamin c tablet and add it to your hognoses water. Helps to stregnthen the immune system just like in humans.
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Be excellent to each other...and Party on dude!

85-90 degrees, paper towels and give it baytril twice a day for three days and then reduce it to once a day until the snake is better. It won't hurt to go a day or two longer than that also.
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Steve W.

Steve are you sure on the baytril. The reason I ask two years ago the vet gave my adult tri female a shot of baytril and she died in 30 min.

Tom

Baytril is the wonder drug for all reptiles and amphibians. It is a broad spectrum antibiotic that is effective for most ailments, and is generally safe. The fact that your snake died shortly after its injection is likely to be purely coincidental. I have personally given thousands of baytril shots to hundreds of herps, I cannot attribute any death directly to Baytril.

Swwit has made an excellent point on using an aggressive course of treatment. You have to assume that the generalizations most veterinarians make from their experience with mammals, do not apply to herps. For one, their immune system does not work as quickly as ours. I'm disappointed when I hear people on these forums report that they are given a regimen of injectable antibiotics for a week, or even as little as three days. That is practically useless, and will only breed antibiotic resistant bacteria! You need to continue the course of treatment until you see the animal has healed. And I'm not talking about stopping when there are signs of improvement, only stop when the animal is healed completely. And because I have had experience with stopping antibiotics too soon and the problem reappearing, I am always willing to continue treatment at least a week after I have declared the animal healed. For a respiratory infection, I would expect at least a month's worth of antibiotics would be required. You can see the degree of difficulty with treating such a serious ailment. Since respiratory infections just don't pop up spontaneously, this should give you the drive to seriously evaluate your husbandry and to improve any areas necessary.

Apparently swwit and I believe in an aggressive course of treatment, however, his maybe a little too aggressive for my liking. Baytril does have its side effects, most notably its inclination to cause localized necrosis around the injection site (I have seen this happen mostly with rough green snakes and some turtles). The exotic animal formulary recommends 5mg/kg every three days. I usually give 10mg/kg for the first few days, or depending upon the severity of the infection, and then back off to every two or three days if the condition improves.

Of course I would rather have you refer to your veterinarian on this issue, but it is obvious they may not be very herp savvy! Feel free to report back to us on the progress of your snake.
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If there is a just God, how humanity would writhe in its attempt to justify its treatment of animals. - Isaac Asimov

Human industry has been in full swing for a little over a century, yet it has brought about a decline in almost every ecosystem on the planet. Nature doesn't have a design problem. People do.
William McDonough, architect and designer, Sierra Club magazine

I would say you two seem to have it covered ! but can someone tell me were or how to get Baytril these days? I have not had to to use any for a few years now and I could use some more. can you buy it on line yet? let me know. thanks.

JIM

Baytril, as with a lot of other drugs used on herps, are controlled substance that requires a vet prescription. There is no generic and you have to buy it straight from the manufacturer with a vet licence number. Developing a relationship with a herp savvy vet will often help in you getting your own bottle. Through my vet and with a discount, a single bottle costs $80. With collection of 200 herps that would last 2-6 months.
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If there is a just God, how humanity would writhe in its attempt to justify its treatment of animals. - Isaac Asimov

Human industry has been in full swing for a little over a century, yet it has brought about a decline in almost every ecosystem on the planet. Nature doesn't have a design problem. People do.
William McDonough, architect and designer, Sierra Club magazine

The FDA is wanting Baytril removed from the vet. market. Here is a quote from onlinelawyersource.com. It is not the only site in which I have found this information. This site was specific, but others have been not been.

"The FDA’s decision on Baytril is the first time that a drug used primarily for veterinary reasons has been withdrawn from the market due to antibiotic resistance and human side effects. Baytril was scheduled to be taken off the market for poultry use on September 12, 2005. Although Bayer had 60 days to appeal the decision, the ban did in fact go through. The company maintains the drug’s safety record, but says it is looking into the FDA findings."

From the FDR
"The Food and Drug Administration bans the use of an antibiotic in animals, citing a threat to human health. The drug, Baytril, has been linked to new microbes resist antibiotics, both in animals and in humans. Baytril is used to treat infections in chickens and turkeys.

The drug is also s a close chemical cousin to human medicines such as Cipro. It's believed to be the first time the FDA has acted to withdraw an animal drug to prevent drug-resistance problems in humans."

Just thought I would pass along the info. Hopefully it will not cause to many problems.
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

>>The FDA is wanting Baytril removed from the vet. market. Here is a quote from onlinelawyersource.com. It is not the only site in which I have found this information. This site was specific, but others have been not been.
>>
>>"The FDA’s decision on Baytril is the first time that a drug used primarily for veterinary reasons has been withdrawn from the market due to antibiotic resistance and human side effects. Baytril was scheduled to be taken off the market for poultry use on September 12, 2005. Although Bayer had 60 days to appeal the decision, the ban did in fact go through. The company maintains the drug’s safety record, but says it is looking into the FDA findings."
>>

This ban is on the use of Baytril in farm animals and, I believe, only poultry. Baytril is widely used in "companion" animals and I'm not aware of any attempt to restrict it's use there.

deg

We got it from a friend in CA who went across the border...$15. Had it for 4 years, NEVER used it once! I don't see a shelf life, or expiration on the bottle! We're lucky here and usually catch it in the early stages, so we just up the temps, put them on paper towels!
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MIKE
snmreptiles.com

>> Through my vet and with a discount, a single bottle costs $80. With collection of 200 herps that would last 2-6 months.

Your vet must not shop around to be paying that much for a bottle of baytril. My vet sold me a full bottle for $45 a couple years back when I was rehabbing a group of aquatic turtles with a severe form of SCUD who had gone septic. $45 was the cost that they paid for it and they made no profit on the medication (she was very good about donating services to our center). I was giving injections every other day for 10 days.. take a week off.. then back on for 10 days... this went on for nearly 3 months.
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PHWyvern

The snakes that i've used baytril with aggressively is mainly alterna. They seem to need a little more of a boost when it comes to treating infections. Luckily i've yet to need it for any hognose snakes. Good luck.
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Steve W.

>>Baytril does have its side effects, most notably its inclination to cause localized necrosis around the injection site (I have seen this happen mostly with rough green snakes and some turtles).

Baytril can cause death if the client is not fully informed on the side effects of the drug... one thing that is noted is that it can lead to kidney failure after a while so one has to keep the animal very well hydrated especially when treating long term.
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PHWyvern

>>Baytril is the wonder drug for all reptiles and amphibians. It is a broad spectrum antibiotic that is effective for most ailments, and is generally safe. T
>>

Oh yeah, forgot to mention.. even though baytril is commonly used and recommended by vets and seen as the 'wonder drug' of the herp community.. it's not labled for use in reptiles/amphibians or other exotics. Care should always be taken when using the drug.
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PHWyvern