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DOUBLE-STRIPED VENTRAL CHARACTERISTIC

serpentdan Nov 03, 2005 07:03 PM

A few days ago Tony D. raised the topic of how he looks for certain morphological characteristics to help identify pure thayeri. One characteristic that was not mentioned that I'd like to share is the double-striped ventral pattern. I'm going to go out on a limb and state that thayeri are the only Lampropeltis that possess this. If I am wrong, I know you guys will quickly correct me. But from my experience, I have never seen this in a pyro, ruthveni, greeri, getula, alterna, mex-mex, calligaster, or a L. triangulum. I have only seen this in Leonis thayeri morphs.

John L. mentioned, "All the wild type thayeri I have seen in person or in photos have grey faces......Black faced ones resemble Alterna, Pyro and Ruthveni." This is not a reliable method to ID thayeri. Attached is a macro of the head of the thayeri we found last summer in Iturbide, NL. It had a lot of black on its head and snout, with just a little red / peach
mottling.

Someone posted that iris color was one of the most important things to look at, and I fully agree. Garstka (1982) used iris color too as part of his diagnosis.

One more thing you can do is count ventral scales. Put the snake in a clear tube and start counting, or put it on a photocopier and make a copy. If you count between 190 - 211 you're in the ball park.

No doubt, with so much variation and unscrupulous breeders out there, trying to find pure thayeri these days can be tricky.

Gotta go clean cages....

Dan

Replies (6)

jlassiter Nov 03, 2005 07:36 PM

Dan....
You are absolutely correct....I have only seen double striped ventrals in Thayeri.
And as for the grey face thing I should not have said all thayeri have grey faces.....rather....most thayeri have grey faces....especially at the time of piping......I too have a male leonis with a black head.....
BTW....I really like the red speckling in the black on that one....Reminds me of my Ruthveni.....
John

Tony D Nov 04, 2005 06:53 AM

This grey faced thing, to me anyway, seems relatively new in some of the line bred types. See it in some of Tim's stock as well as in Dan's white thayeri stock.

jonellopez Nov 03, 2005 08:40 PM

Hi Dan

Sigh. Is that the animal that I think it is? Man, I'm still kicking myself Dan. Still kicking myself,hehe. Anyway, back to feeding and cleaning cages. Take care.
Image
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Jonel @ Selective Propagations
www.spsnakes.com

Aaron Nov 03, 2005 08:53 PM

I have not seen the double striped ventral. I have seen alterna with orange iris' though. In 1998 I caught a subadult Hwy. 277 Blair's that had orange iris'. They later faded to the typical silvery alterna iris but she has produced several babies with orange iris' too.

crimsonking Nov 04, 2005 11:37 PM

..I was wondering the same thing and I THINK I have a snake out there (I'll get pics if I do) that also has the double stripe thing.
It is an alterna X thayeri.
Does that count???
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

serpentdan Nov 05, 2005 07:33 AM

I want to point out that these morphological characteristics we are discussing should by no means be construed as proof-positive or indicative of 100% pure thayeri. As we all know, certain traits are dominant, recessive, and co-dominant.

Gotta go clean cages.....

Dan
www.serpentsonline.com

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