Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw on an earlier post that someone recommended that, if you were to use an albino in a pairing that it should be there male of the two. They said that female albinos could be problematic in respect to thermoregulation, etc.. Anybody have any experience with that or any other problems associated with albinos?

smoking crack and not speaking from experience. Albino females are no different than any other female boa. There are some that are easier to breed than others, but overall they are just as sturdy and produce babies just the same as any other female.

Mark Miller
Locolizards.com

z

i have no experience but of corse i have an opinion ...
the reason people say this is because they think the females have trouble absorbing heat due to their coloration (obviously need more heat for the babies). i dont see why this would be a problem if the temperatures would be correct. the snake would jsut have to spend more time in the heat since it wouldnt be absorbed as rapid. that is like saying a white car wont get as hot sitting in the sun as a brown car. touch a white car sitting in the sun and youll know that it does absorb heat just as well.
in theory its a good claim but not strong enough in reality to make a difference with proper care which should be provided anyway.

Albino boas can absorb heat just the same as a boa with melanin. There is no difference. These are captive animals, not animals running around in the wild trying to sun themsleves. Boas in captivity that have proper caging, normally include undertank heat, such as heat tape. Saying albinos cant thermoregulate correctly in captive situations because the lack of melanin is simply uneducated.

Yes albino boas can thermoregulate in captivity when provided the proper environment. The question is at what point is adequate heating for a normal not adequate for an albino. The white car example is perfect, with the same amount of radiant heat, the black car is significantly warmer then the white one.

I fully believe with proper care (heat) an albino can produce just as well as a normal.
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12.136 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (OK, I'm only keeping a few of the 136, just tickled pink with my production this year)
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Just because the animal is lacking melanin, doesnt make it require different heating arrangements than a normal.

The car idea is nice, but in no way relavent to the snakes. White boas require the same Captive setup as normals. Anyone that tells you different is smoking grass clippings.

maybe i worded it wrong. i was attempting to point out the other side of the story. i personally do not believe there should eb any difference between an albino female or a normal female as far as thermoregulation goes.

reflective properties are irrelevant.

From some very well known breeders, that it would be better for me to use a male Albino and a Het female, than to use an albino female. One of the breeders is the top breeder of Motleys...
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"Life is a Safari"

Ok, I dont know what your useing for qualification as a top breeder but if you havent heard of me, then you will sometime this next season Im sure if you have any interest in Coral Sunglows, Swedish line Jungles Het albino, Coral Albinos, Striped Salmons het for Anery and albino, Striped Albinos, Stiped Ghosts, and many other projects that I hope to produce this season.

I have alot of experience with albino boas. I know what im talking about when i say Albino females are just as capable as any other female to produce good healthy live animals without defects. I have done it. I have living breathing rat eating proof.

If you are trying to make a decision based on financial oppurtunity on wether to buy an albino female or male, yes a male is better financially, but that is a completely different debate than what this thread is in reference to.

You seem pretty full of yourself, I will make a mental note not to puchase anything from you or bred by you in the future. Try an tone it down a little, People with your attitude is why these forums don't work. Try and lay off the "Smokin Crack" comments, People have different opinions, and YOU are NOT the All mighty reptile breeder, and we won't bow down to you.
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"Life is a Safari"

np

I never said i was any better than anyone else, or ever tried to push my animals on you, if you dont wish to buy my animals, that is your perogative. I simply stated that I have the experience to state with factual certainty that albino females are excellent breeders just like any other breed of boa. If you have proof otherwise, please share your experience instead of just saying you know top breeders and they say....

I never attacked anyone in this post, i simply shared my knowledge about albinos and breeding them. Saying people like me are the reason why these forums dont work is a lame attempt at a trying to make me look bad because you dont have any factual evidence to support your claim that albino females are bad breders.

So the statement, "Anyone that tells you that albino females are not good breeders are ...more smoking crack and not speaking from experience." is a fact? The only facts that I am aware of concerning albino boas in general is that there were more "one-eyed" albinos for sale a few years back and now you don't see them that often. My opinion would be the outcrossing of this gen to difersify and strengthen it. Maybe not so much a few years ago.
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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

that he is one of the top breeders of this Era. Confidence is good and I am sure it will show in the outcome of his future breedings.

In my opinion Mark Miller is a well known breeder. He has bred a lot of boas and produced some incredible animals. He is telling you that he has used albino females and knows the results. I would think that this would be reason enough to believe what he says. I do not think that he has an ego problem at all.

If you go back and read most of his replies, he does have a very "I am the best" attitude. If you read his reply to my post you will see the "Ego". He just needs to chill out, and maybe carefully think about his replies, cause to me he sounds arrogant. I didn't say I was right, nor did the person that posted the original question...People who think breeding a female het rather than a female albino are NOT "Smoking crack". Just because he has done it doesn't mean that it is the best way. Good for him, he has successfuly bred a Albino female. Nobody said it couldn't be done. And I am sure when he reads the new posts you will see a little more of his EGO..cause I know he will just have to post a reply...I have delt with people like that before...Thats one of the reasons why Kingsnake.com forums have moderators...
Have a nice day..
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"Life is a Safari"

As been said before, if the snakes were thermoregulating with ONLY a LIGHT source, there would be a difference... BUT when using belly heat, heating up has NOTHING to do with color.. Albino boas have the same DENSITY as a normal boa and would transfer the heat the same... Are you saying 2 plastic blocks, 1 black, 1 white, when placed inside your cage on the heat source with no lights are going to hold different temperatures?? If you were to add a light over each block, YES, the black one would get hotter..
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Joe Lydon

NP

Absolutely, I had to correct that.

But I agree with Joe regardless of how it was typed

We keep ours in the middle of our Freedom Breeder racks and they seem to not have any problem producing baby's as a matter of fact we keep back as many Albino females for breeding as we do male I think at this time we have 10 Albino female adults, sub adults and baby's that we plan on breeding. One of our Albino females gave us Striped Albino's in '04 and Sunglows in '05 so I would say buy them and make baby's

In the beggining people did have more success breeding albino males with hets than albino females. During that time some people did have success breeding albino x albino but overall the general opinion was that the success ratio of breeding was higher with a het female. What has changed is that albinos have been outcrossed to the point were now they are becoming much more reliable breeders. The introduction of the stripe and hypo genes into albinos are good examples. Stripe line and sunglow females seem to be very good breeders and I wouldn't be surprised if they are better breeders than albinos that haven't been outcrossed as much. I think the fact that more albinos weren't produced in the early years demonstrates that female albinos were not that easy to breed at that time.

I think the same will hold for snow boas. The introduction of more outcrossed albinos and anerys into snow projects will result in more vigorous snow animals and the snow project should really start to take off. The introduction of the hypo gene into the snow, which I am sure we will see this year, should make the production of strong healthy snows easier than it has been in the past.

Bill Kirby
KRBS HERPS

Bill's response is basically what I have been told by a few "old school" breeders when I asked the same question about albino females and albino to albino breedings. Bill just stated it much better than I coild have!

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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

The best post I have read today, Thank you for posting, very well worded and I agree 100%. Thats the kind of answer I was looking for for the persons question. Thanks again, very well said.

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"Life is a Safari"

Thank you all so much for your info. I feel much better about the whole thing. Honestly, the reason I wanted to get a female albino may seem a little silly, but it works for me: I have a female het and was going to pair her with and albino male for that project. My next project was going to be sunglows and I'm planning for an albino and a double het sunglow. The only reason I wanted an albino female is because for my other project I would have an albino male. It may be silly, but having fun is still a top priority for me. However, healthy successful animals and breedings are MORE of a priority, because the alternative is no fun at all!
Actually also, I DO use lights for my heat, but seem to have no problem getting good temps and healthy animals.
Thanks again everybody! Good advice. Please keep it coming!