Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am not writing this to come down on anyone or to point fingers.
I just think it may be time to remind people why some of us are here.
We obviously enjoy the hobby. We care about our snakes and every once in a while we enjoy showing our animals off with a few photographs.
We enjoy talking to people with our own interests and we wish to learn as much as possible about our animals.
Arguments happen, tempers flare but as a general rule most people are here to expand our hobby. Not only for ourselves but for everyone involved.
We come here to help people when we can. We can all learn more but we can also offer our experience and knowledge to those who haven't gained the experience or knowledge, yet.
When we give advice it basically comes from personal experience, the experience of fellow keepers, through books and magazines and sites like this.
The ADVICE we give is meant to help the next person avoid the same mistakes we made.
So, when we advise people about the dangers of keeping snakes together. There is experience and knowledge behind this advice. It is aimed to help. We understand the potential problems and do our best to educate everyone on those dangers. The choices you, as keepers, make are your own we just hope you keep the snake's safety in mind.
When we advise against feeding live, there is obviously a reason behind this. Mice can and will inflict serious damage to a snake. Sometimes it can even be fatal. If live is all you can get or the most economical, for you, that is fine. There is nothing wrong with that.
But if live is all you can get then incapacitate the mouse before feeding it to your snake.
There are quite a few ways to do this, ranging from a quick whack on a counter to CO2. There are ways to do it.
Post the question and solutions will be given.
Do a search, methods can be found.
There was a post earlier about newbies and advice given.
I can't and wouldn't even try to quote the post but one thing I got from it was the fact that people ask for advise, are given sound advise from several sources and choose to ignore that advise.
This is what bothers us at times.
When people repeat a dangerous practice knowing the damage it can cause it is simply irresponsible and in my opinion inexcusable..
If something in your setup has injured your snake, you come here asking advise on what you can do and then simply ignore the advicee given causing it to happen again, it has a tendency to make us think "what the hell, why do we even try?"
Well, I for one don't like to feel this way.
As I stated earlier there are some heated arguments and discussions here, which may at times seem egotistical, I personally think an argument or discussion can be a good thing. It can sometimes be exactly what we need to get us thinking or to open our minds to new viewpoints or possibilities.
Yes these posts can sometimes be disrupting but they are part of our passion.
One thing that usually holds true about these "discussions" is they are generally not about husbandry and/or proper care of our animals. There seems to be a general agreement on basic care.
One thing we do have in common is the desire to see our snakes, your snakes, the next new owner's snakes get the best care available, so when we read someone will endanger their snakes out of laziness or refusal to take advise we just don't understand. If you are not willing to take the time to do what is right for your animals, any animals not just snakes, then maybe you shouldn't have them.
Sorry to ramble and float off in different directions.
I hope my general feeleings are clear enough
Jimmy (Draybar)

I totally agree with all that you have said...I feel the same way...You are pretty darn good at putting thoughts into words...
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Paula
31 Corns, 1 BP, 2 Amazon Tree Boas, 3 Hondos
"ALWAYS LEARNING"

Have a GREAT day!!!!!!!

i agree with what you said and yes i agree you were very good at putting it all together..... i didnt run spell check so i think that was all good to...LOL
i do agree with the stuff about putting animals in danger, because there was something more importnant at that point.
i know it does seems to be like some things are gone over 34956 times in a month..... thats why i have limited my questions, i usually can read your posts, kels, kats, phibers, darins, kj, zees and alot of the others and get maybe the answer to the question i had...
plus because of all of you guys giving me sound advice i havent had any problems, with the exception of degei getting out, and that was my fault be cause i forgot to put the weight on the top..

Draybar, I have noticed the same thing in reading this forum. I see the question posted, see the answers from those of you who have been doing this for many years and have the experience. The I see the poster ask for other opinions because they don't like your answers.

People! In my short experience, the one thing I have learned is: Take the advice of the long term breeders! They know what they are talking about!

Read back on the forum. If you see certain people always asking questions and then ignoring them and bad things happen to their snakes, most often the same thing all over again! Yet the next time a question is posted those are the first people to offer advice like they are the experts. Then next thing you know, their snakes suffer all over again because they didn't listen to the advice THEY WERE GIVEN by the ones who have 10, 20, 30 years more experience than them!

Guess what. When I have posted a question and gotten an answer from Draybar or Kathy or another season breeder I have ALWAYS followed their advice exactly. I am new. I bought my first snakes in August of this year. I bought 9 to start with, so I have had a few problems. By following the experts advice and not the newbies, my snakes are all doing fantastic.

Sorry for the long post, but I always see people new to the hobby or not argue with the, I can't remember how he put it, newbies plus 10, 20 or 30 years. I also see the same people follow the advice of newbie x1 or 2 years over the 10, 20 or 30 year people. It shouldn't be hard to figure out whose advice to follow.

The easiest way is not always the best way. Ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away doesn't usually work (in snakes or in life). People who have been there, done that for so long are the ones to listen to.

Sorry for rambling, but my dad taught me to argue, not agree so I agree like I am arguing?
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1.2 Ghost Corns, Beetlejuice, Casper and Spooky
1.1 Charcoal het pewter, Smokey and Flame
1.1 Hypo het lavender, Rosy and Rocko
1.0 Anery, Goku
0.1 Amel, Sunny
2.0 Tabby Cats, Daddycat and his son Brat
0.1 Australian Shepherd, Angel

Gypsy

>>>>I am not as an experienced breeder as I might have led people to believe.
I have only been breeding for a couple of seasons.
I have kept snakes off and on my whole life and have what I believe to be around 15 years of true experience in snake husbandry.
I did do a lot of research and gained as much knowledge as I could before risking my snakes through breeding and have learned a lot over the last few of years and am still learning.
This season I had an 85% successful hatch rate and obviously most of the credit due for that has to go to people like Kathy with her excellent book and the great people who come to sites like this to offer their expertise.
Genetics is also something I am still learning daily.
I try to leave most of the genetic and breeding questions to the more experienced unless it is something I feel I can answer correctly.
There are times when this is much easier said then done, but that is a different story...lol
I try to read a lot and try to talk to as many enthusiasts as possible and try to weigh all information against what my limited intelligence, experience and common sense tell me.
Maybe not "weigh against" but more how to combine and modify this information to work best for me and my animals.
And this doesn't only go for my snakes, I also have 4 turtles (down from over 20) 1 tortoise, 3 bearded dragons, 5 dogs and 8 cats. I try to give them all the best care I possibly can.
I don't claim to be an expert but I do believe I have some decent knowledge, experience and understanding to offer when I can.
So please don't take my above post as a "listen to me" post but as a post reminding people to listen to what people are trying to tell you.
There is a lot of sound information on this forum. Please don't let it go to waste.
thanks
Jimmy (Draybar)

and enjoy reading your post so much, your honest and to the point.... im not saying i think everyone here are fakes...or know it alls, im just saying you know alot and help alot of people.

I find that I look for a Draybar response to the questions posted. Experience is a great thing, but I'll go for solid knowledge and the ability to get the information across anytime.

Before I got my first snakes, I posted a question about co-habitation. One answer I got was somewhat superior and a bit snide. I hadn't said I was going to house my snakes together, just asked why some people did it and some did not.

Then I got Draybar's post, which answered my question perfectly. So, Jimmy, you're on my 'listen to' list! Not to mention I always love your photos.

I like the way you think. Good post!

I too have about 15 years with snakes but I still feel like a newbie and I still ask questions to conferm my own thoughts..
Anyway you always post great pics...

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Cory
Corns(Adults)
1.0 Snow
1.1 Anerythiristic
1.2 Normals
0.1 Okeetee
0.1 Banded
0.1 Blizzard
1.0 Milksnake Phase
Corns(Sub-adult)
0.1 Normal
1.0 Amel
0.1 Normal het Amel
1.1 Bloodreds het Pewter
1.1 Butter
1.1 Aztec Snow
Rats
1.1 Black rats
Pythons
1.1 Ball
Rattlesnakes
1.0 Western Diamondback
Lots of mice and rats

I'm with you all the way. I don't often get to this forum because I find it very frustrating for the reasons you mentioned. Try thereptilerooms.com Also, is that an Okeetee you have pictured? He looks just like mine, and I always wondered if I had an Okeetee.

>>I'm with you all the way. I don't often get to this forum because I find it very frustrating for the reasons you mentioned. Try thereptilerooms.com Also, is that an Okeetee you have pictured? He looks just like mine, and I always wondered if I had an Okeetee.

Yes that WAS Bilbo a nice yearling Okeetee.
I say was because I learned from one of my own mistakes.
I didn't secure the lid to his enclosure properly, after feeding, and he escaped. Man, If I could have, I would have kicked my own butt.
Bilbo was one of my favorites.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Sorry you lost Bilbo. Next time (hopefully there won't be one), you can always ask someone else to kick you in the butt. LOL.

>>Sorry you lost Bilbo. Next time (hopefully there won't be one), you can always ask someone else to kick you in the butt. LOL.

Don't worry,
My wife takes care of that quite well.....LOL
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

n/p

>>I am not writing this to come down on anyone or to point fingers.
>>I just think it may be time to remind people why some of us are here.
>>We obviously enjoy the hobby. We care about our snakes and every once in a while we enjoy showing our animals off with a few photographs.
>>We enjoy talking to people with our own interests and we wish to learn as much as possible about our animals.
>>Arguments happen, tempers flare but as a general rule most people are here to expand our hobby. Not only for ourselves but for everyone involved.
>>We come here to help people when we can. We can all learn more but we can also offer our experience and knowledge to those who haven't gained the experience or knowledge, yet.
>>When we give advice it basically comes from personal experience, the experience of fellow keepers, through books and magazines and sites like this.
>>The ADVICE we give is meant to help the next person avoid the same mistakes we made.
>>So, when we advise people about the dangers of keeping snakes together. There is experience and knowledge behind this advice. It is aimed to help. We understand the potential problems and do our best to educate everyone on those dangers. The choices you, as keepers, make are your own we just hope you keep the snake's safety in mind.
>>When we advise against feeding live, there is obviously a reason behind this. Mice can and will inflict serious damage to a snake. Sometimes it can even be fatal. If live is all you can get or the most economical, for you, that is fine. There is nothing wrong with that.
>>But if live is all you can get then incapacitate the mouse before feeding it to your snake.
>>There are quite a few ways to do this, ranging from a quick whack on a counter to CO2. There are ways to do it.
>>Post the question and solutions will be given.
>>Do a search, methods can be found.
>>There was a post earlier about newbies and advice given.
>>I can't and wouldn't even try to quote the post but one thing I got from it was the fact that people ask for advise, are given sound advise from several sources and choose to ignore that advise.
>>This is what bothers us at times.
>>When people repeat a dangerous practice knowing the damage it can cause it is simply irresponsible and in my opinion inexcusable..
>>If something in your setup has injured your snake, you come here asking advise on what you can do and then simply ignore the advicee given causing it to happen again, it has a tendency to make us think "what the hell, why do we even try?"
>>Well, I for one don't like to feel this way.
>>As I stated earlier there are some heated arguments and discussions here, which may at times seem egotistical, I personally think an argument or discussion can be a good thing. It can sometimes be exactly what we need to get us thinking or to open our minds to new viewpoints or possibilities.
>>Yes these posts can sometimes be disrupting but they are part of our passion.
>>One thing that usually holds true about these "discussions" is they are generally not about husbandry and/or proper care of our animals. There seems to be a general agreement on basic care.
>>One thing we do have in common is the desire to see our snakes, your snakes, the next new owner's snakes get the best care available, so when we read someone will endanger their snakes out of laziness or refusal to take advise we just don't understand. If you are not willing to take the time to do what is right for your animals, any animals not just snakes, then maybe you shouldn't have them.
>>Sorry to ramble and float off in different directions.
>>I hope my general feeleings are clear enough
>>Jimmy (Draybar)
>>
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Taste like chicken