Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Joe, I would like to nominate a Sanderson alterna for your wild caught November alterna of the month. The snake was collected in early July by John and Barb Fraser on the big cut west of Sanderson. There's a good photo of it on page 5 of the alterna forum [July 11th]. It is not a typical looking alterna from Terrell Co. in fact looks like something that could of came from the Gap or someplace else farther west. I beleive its a female around 14" long. If you allready have a snake picked out for November, at least keep this one in mind for a later month. Thanks, BA.

I knew I was forgetting something.

You know, nothing against that Sanderson snake, but what about Doug's Limpia Canyon snake? And Jon S. gives it a solid 8 haha - you can do better than that Jon!

I'm leaning toward the Limpia, unless someone can convince me between now and tomorrow

Forky

I am with Brad, John's snake from west of Sanderson is extremely coooool and different.
Thanks for posting anyway, I thought my computer had crashed or all you Herpers had died of alcohol poisoning or something.
Later
Rick

What about Rebecca Romjin for the November featured specimen??? DOH!!!

Careful Paw Paw!

yea- you wouldn't want someone who knows your wife to get ahold of that comment

Rebecca is my wife

Doug's limpia would be good also. So would Gerry Merker's Hueco male but since nothing had been selected or nominated as of yesterday I just figured the Sanderson female would be a great nominee. Its truly different looking than the common phases that Mr. Pelez and others found there this year. Respectfully, BA

...is for the Sanderson. I like the Limpia critter too (it's nice to see some ORANGE on a DAVIS LOL), but the Terrell County critter gets my vote for its unusual and delicate patterning.

of an ugly snake! But if that's what you guys want, you got it.
In truth, I don't think it is ugly, interesting would better describe it.

Forky

It may lack some of the qualities that have traditionally been asociated with "outstanding" alterna, but the more I come to know about gray-banded kingsnakes the more the unusual ones turn my head. It seems most alterna afficionados follow that same route... starting with the obvious appreciation for bright blairs and eventually pursuing animals with beauty that's a bit more vague (at least to most).

haha...

I understand what you are saying, but again taste is subjective. You can speak for yourself, but you can't speak for everyone. I don't have any problem with folks who like a certain kind of gray-band over another, but I do have a problem with folks telling me what kind of gray-band I should like

I could say a stereo typical 277 blairs, knockout orange, thin black banded blairs w/ a black cap beats that snake anyday, and the best you could do is disagree. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong, it merely illustrates the fact that taste is subjective.

I'm glad that not everyone has the same taste in gray-bands, food, women, etc etc. It makes for an interesting world. Debate is good, but know when to say when. When

Forky

Saying "when" is too quiet and cold.

It's getting chilly up here and it's nice to have a fire to warm up a cold forum LOL. It gives everyone a reason to pop in and check for new thread responses. Somebody needs to think up a constructive topic or I will have to start a mental chess match with Troy "Ophibolus" Hibbitts again! LOL. Coincidence that "Brown" described Ophibolus alternus? I think not. LOL. As much of a train wreck as that whole thread was I did get a lot of emails from people who said they enjoyed the banter.

Anyone have any cool observations, stories, or pictures to post? I know Bob Haase had a cool short story about hunting for alterna in the Christmas... care to post it Bob?

I'll start a new thread...

Forky

Good one Joe, too bad nobody is biting!

DB

no one else heard, or someone knows and doesn't want to say anything. usually when I get info I'm sworn to secrecy, but this one kind of fell in my lap w/o such restraints.

I wouldn't send anyone on a wild goose chase, they are there, regardless of the validity of these rumored specimens.

Forky

While that is a great photo as usual, except maybe the one you took of troy's gap back in the day lol, I find it very interesting that when a brown and rust snake shows up from SANDERSON, that it warrants Salceies praise. Perhaps your past eloquent prose promoting the superior limestone snakes from the Edwards Plateau is based more on lacality bias than a strongly held belief in general. lol

John's snake in question is a very nice and unique find no matter where it was found. It certainly is not out of place as "alterna of the month".

Congrats John on the honor, but more importantly it sure is nice to hear that Barb is back home tonight after another lengthy stay in the hospital.

DB

See, the difference is that in Sanderson you can find an interesting critter like the one John found on the same cut as a bright orange light phase blairs with a few alternates, or a thin-banded silver alterna morph, or a black intermediate morph, or a light alterna morph with triple alternates and donuts, or a.... you get the picture. In the Davis, you can get a great "light" phase (for the Davis) with great orange (for the Davis) and on the same cut (I should say "stretch of pavement" in your case LOL ) find a whole slew of snakes with fantastically normal patterns that are adorned with the overwhelmingly intense shades and rich hues of umber, sepia, and sienna.

I like Davis snakes... they are different. As a species, alterna would be a lesser beast were it not for the variation added to the pot by the Davis mountains. Variation floats my boat and that's why a snake like John's makes Sanderson more interesting for me (read: my opinion). The overall parameters for variation are broader (again, read: my opinion). If all the snakes in Sanderson looked like November's alterna of the month, the location would excite me as much as the Davis.

Sienna, Umber (at least that's a Texas color). Have you been taking some ineterior design courses lately or maybe just painted your house recently?

I do and always have understood your opinion, so I will not start a Troy like debate w/ you on this matter which has already been done anyway. Your opinion is backed up w/ a good supporting argument just as Troy's is. I will just let the fact that Troy is right, go at this time. LOL

While Sanderson does have some variety along w/ the occassional odd ball like John's recent find and your donut snake, it just has too many blairs IMO to make it a place I would want to frequent, like I would find anything anyway. Even though a blairs w/ great orange is hard to beat for a striking appearance, most just start looking so much alike to me that I find them a bit boring as a group/phase. At least quite a few of the Sanderson blairs have some alternates to make them more interesting. My biased eye probably has something to do with those last 2 statements.... gee, ya think?

West is still best for variety and beauty, whether talking snakes or geography!!

DB

...I'm not an interior decorator, just an illustrator/painter that didn't want to be accused of indicating that Davis mountain alterna might not have a broad range of variation. If I were to have just said "brown", I wouldn't have done justice to all the different shades and hues.

I understand that the number of blairs that show up in Terrell County might make it a little less appealing for someone with such a pronounced preference for medium gray and "paper bag brown" alterna morphs from the River Road but hey... beauty is completely in the eye of the beholder. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Having opinions is a good thing for everyone... unless we're talking about Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, or Dick Durban. LOL

The "west is better for beauty" comment eludes me a bit. Big Bend is no doubt one of the prettiest places on earth... an expanse of majestic terra firma for which there are few rivals left in North America. It is certainly the case though, that if time is taken to venture into the back country (read: off the road LOL) that there are spots elsewhere in west Texas that on a smaller scale rival the best of Big Bend. Of course, ESPN and Fox News aren't piped into those areas, but the sacrifices are worth it.

OUCH! Did that hurt, Doug???????? I award a point to Damon on that one. At least your Bucs won a shootout yesterday with my Skins. Dang it! How'd the Gators do against the Spurriercocks? Did you ever tell your better half my witch joke? BA

Award points as you see fit. Damom is a very bright guy and will continue to win "points in the future I'm sure.

Yes, the bucs/skins game was very entertaining w/ a correcct outcome. Thanks for acknowledging.

As for the gators, they did just as well as your UT VOls did against Spurrier. At least they didn't lose at home.

Yes, Nancy was told the joke and she thought it was mildly humorous.

DB

Just for the record, Dougie. 1] UT spotted 4th ranked LSU a 21-0 lead then came back and kicked their butt on their home field while the gators got wasted by LSU. 2] UT lost to then unbeaten Alabama 6-3 after fumbling the winning td through the end zone. Again the gators were turned into bags and purses by the Tide by over 3 touchdowns. 3] Yes Spurrier came into Knoxville and escaped with a 1 point win after we again fumbled the winning touchdown across the goal line after leading for 58 minutes. The gators then got spanked by Spurriers Gamecocks last week and were never in the game. Final verdict: The Vols, despite a current record of 4 up and 5 down are much better than the gators this year. This was confirmed by Lee Corso, Herb Curbstreet and Keith Jackson on ESPN.
As for the Bucs/Skins fiasco game last weekend : 76% of the viewers felt Alstott was down by contact.. SOOOOO it was not the correct outcome! A gutsy call by Gruden, nevertheless another blown call by the refs! Thanks for allowing me to set the record straight! BA

"As for the Bucs/Skins fiasco game last weekend : 76% of the viewers felt Alstott was down by contact.. SOOOOO it was not the correct outcome!"

1) You can't be down by contact if you're not contacting the ground (and over 76% of viewers were drunk by that point in the game anyway).

2) His elbows broke the plane (even accoring to the commentators) and the ball was AHEAD of his elbows on his chest.

all that = Touchdown (and the win)

It was a gutsy call... one I was cussing Gruden for, but it paid off when the ol' "A train" whistled on through.

How 'bout them Chiefs? LOL

Bradley,

Here are the facts and an update w/out adding YOUR emotion:

After 10 games the gators are 7 wins 3 losses.
After 10 games the Vols are 4 wins 6 losses.
Head to head, the GATORS BEAT the vols.
It takes 6 or more wins to be bowl eligible.
The gators will be in a bowl game this year.
The vols will be bowling at the local lanes.

The above record for the gators also was accomplished w/ a new head coach, who instilled a new complicated offense along w/ a new defensive scheme. The vols, well same ol stuff w/ 6 bad outcomes.

As for the bucs/skins outcome. I don't have the quote from the head of officiating that was in the paper earlier this week, but I will paraphrase for you here. He said that he agreed w/ the call on the field. That there was no replay that clearly showed the ball position as it was hidden by bodies. Since the call on the conversion was good on the field and there was no indisputable evidence to overturn the call the call stands.

I was listening to the Mike Alstott show on Monday. Mike is one of the good guys in pro sports. He said that the ball was up near his chin when he fell across the goal line. His shoulders were clearly over the goal line so then it is logical that the ball crossed the goal because his chin is obviously above his shoulders. He stated that the ball was definitely over the goal line.

I noticed you didn't say anything about the kickoff return for a Skins TD. You know the one where he appeared to be out of bounds on 2 steps. Say what you want about the heel not being down, but that is basically impossible and since they did not have a clear indisputable frame of film that showed his heel touching the white stripe the wrong call stood. I won't even mention the clear block in the back that was not called on that play.

76% of the audience is wrong and your boys at ESPN are as well.It appears your sources were incorrect and maybe write for the National Enquirer.

Now the true record is straight.

No.... thank you.

DB

While of course I know that you are not an interior decorator nor did I imply that you are, I orginally interpreted, and after re-reading, believe I correctly interpreted the use of your color examples as being very sarcastic in nature. My reply was typed w/ tongue firmly planted in cheek. I might even think that you might be doing a bit of CYA about the original statement, but I certainly could be mistaken.LOL

I'm certainly no illustrator/painter/photographer extroardinaire such as yourself (no sarcasm meant or intended), so brown is a good enough description for this simple, non artistic, non brown hue and shade describing, medium gray and paper bag brown (now that's a description I understand) river road loving individual who finds most blairs a bit on the boring side. LOL

I won't even address your correct statement about the lefties you mentioned. I don't even think they have opinions, they merely make ridciulous partisan statements most of the time that do little more than strengthen the resolve of the enemy.

As for my west is best comment. As was mentioned earlier, I no longer remain just on the roads while looking for alterna and since we started building our house near Alpine in 2003, we have been going out to WesTexas every 3 months, which puts us there at different times of the year which is great. Since we are there at non snake hunting times, we have ventured to many places in the back country as you say. Granted none of them have been near Sanderson, but nonetheless have seen lots of great stuff. While I'm sure there are some interesting areas in the east, some of which I have seen back in the day, as we have discussed in years past, you have to look hard to find them where as they are everywhere in the Bend to see, whether in the back country or from the pavement.