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In our reptile community there was a young ball python that supposibly died of IBD . If in fact that snake had IBD I am afraid that my boids who were exposed to it at educational reptile shows could now be infected . Should I be concerned or are that chances slim . I only have a small group of boids consisting of 1.0 BP, 1.0 BCI , 0.1 BCL and 1.0 JCP . These snakes have only been exposed to the infected snake a few times for a matter of hours and there was no real direct contact between them . I am really concerned about my snakes.I would hate to lose my small but yet very nice collection of boids to this disease . If anyone knows alot about IBD and what I should be looking out for I would be very thankful . Thank you in advance.

Some questions to assess the risk to your collection:

What kind of exposure are we talking about?
Limited to the snakes being at the same event? Were people possibly handling your boids following this ball python without washing their hands? Were the snakes ever in the same enclosure? Have either your boids, or the ball python ever have snake mites?

Did the ball python actually have viral Inclusion Body Disease?
What diagnositics were used? Was a herp experienced veterinarian and pathology lab used? Was a post-mortem done?
It is not uncommon for an IBD scare to occur when a doctor says it "may" be IBD from the symptoms, but the owner doesn't want to pay for diagnostics and thus the animal's true status is never known.

Where are you located? IBD is more common in certain areas, although no area is not at risk with today's herp commerce.

Until you get some answers to these questions, I would assume the worst in that one or more of your boids has come in contact with IBD. Here are the precautions to take.
1)no animals into the collection, no animals to leave the collection
2)no food, cleaning utensils, water bowls ect. is to be shared inbetween snakes.
3)monitor your animals closely for signs of illness. This may take any form, thus any abnormalities should be noted.
4)purchase quatsyl from your veterinary clinic and use it as a disinfectant during cleaning. While theoretically IBD is a retrovirus and should be easily killed outside of an animal, we do not know this for sure and quatuanary ammonia is the best disinfectant I know of. Be sure to rinse and air out areas disinfected with this product.

Let me know how things are going, and answer the questions that you can, and I'll discuss this with you further

Ian

Thank you for the reply .
As for the type of exposure the snakes never had mite and at shows there is a possiblity that some people may have pet the ball then to other snakes . Only handlers were touching the young ball pythons though so only 5 or 6 people .This was all back a few months ago . The ball did have IBD as far as I know , but I am unsure of what tests were done . What type of things should I be looking out for . Thank you for your help .

The problem with IBD is it can remain in a carrier state for an unknown amount of time. This is especially true with boas. A boa constrictor may be able to shed the virus it's whole life without itself coming up with any symptoms. It is hypothesized based on observations that pythons will show symptoms and die sooner than boas. If the reptile show was several months ago then and your pythons contracted the disease they would be "most likely" showing symptoms, and or be dead by now.

Remember that with this disease there is little known facts; all related to the still questionable etiology. All that is available now are best guess answers.

If you have problems with regurgitation that arn't obviously related to large prey size or cool temperatures; if your snakes look as to be "poor doers", if they have concurrent illnesses like upper respiratory disease, if they have an unexplained weight loss, if they begin to "star-gaze" or exhibit other neurological symptoms, then you will have to question more seriously if you have IBD in your boid collection.

For the time being, I would keep a closed collection of boids for one year. Withen the collection quarantine is not necessary, and actually discouraged. If you have IBD in your collection, unfortunately your pythons will act as the canary and signal the alarm bell when they soon begin to show symptoms.

Unfortunately there is no anti-mortem test that rules out IBD. Actually, you can never say an animal doesn't have IBD with 100% certainty. Detection relies on finding inclusion bodies. There is always a chance that the pathologist just didn't have the right tissue sample.

If you have deep pockets, and a willing, expert herp vet (are you in Florida? Dr. Jacobson is the IBD guru) then a surgical biopsy of the pancreas and liver may help you rule out IBD. These are the most likely tissues to contain inclusions that are available in the living animal. By all means if you have an animal die, get it necropsied specifically looking for IBD, it's worth the money!

Good luck

Ian

Jeez..I remember this problem from 20 years ago. Isn't it water born? Only carried through water contact?
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

It was first discovered in the late 70's, early 80's I believe.

The method of transmission is undetermined, mainly because we still need to define what the exact virus at fault is. The method of tranmission is "most likely" close and intimate contact (same cage, mating, shared snake mites and/or fecal or other discharge contact).

Because there is no cure, and every animal that has been diagnosed with this disease dies from it or it's complications, we treat this as a highly transmissiable disease to be safe.

Ian

"Because there is no cure, and every animal that has been diagnosed with this disease dies from it or it's complications,"

Actually, I had a Burmese that recovered, but was left with some neuro problems. Ok...this is awhile back....maybe early 80's, but it lost it's ability to open it's mouth. It would strike at a rat or rabbit w/closed mouth, unable to bite to coil. If you put a dead rat in it's mouth, it would make exaggerated mouth movments in an attempt to swallow....which it eventually would, if the rat was far enough down (about 2" into it's throat). About a 10' burm. Darn thing would almost punch a hole into live prey, lol. I only lost a few animals, although they were all in the same room. Sterilised all water dishes. I got rid of the snake, can't remember how, though. It did go through the whole stargazing routine before it recovered.
I also understand the stargazing syndrome also affects Spider Ball pythons, but is NOT IBD....just a genetic quirk.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Below is Dr. Jacobsons link with info on IBD:
Link

I also have a paper on IBD with Dr. Jacobson's paper as one of my sources. It may appear in a future REPTILES edition.

Ian

I have heard of a few cases of survival from IBD. The problem is the lack of actual evidence that it was IBD. From your loss of other animals in the collection it sounds like your's may have actually had it. No rule in medicine is 100% and I'm happy to hear there is the odd exception.

Can you please request your veterinarian to email, fax or snail mail me a copy of your medical records for this snake. I have a particular interest in this disease, have researched it endlessly, and continue to do so. If you don't mind, and if your record still exists, please let me know and I'll give you the appropriate addresses/fax number.

Thanks, and I'm happy to hear everything worked out in the end.

Ian

ps, star-gazing is a generic symptom associated with a nervous disorder. The disorder or disease does not necessarily have to be IBD. (it most often isn't). All boas and pythons are at risk for star-gazing for a variety of reasons.

"star-gazing is a generic symptom associated with a nervous disorder."
True...but a mild case of stargazing isn't like the first 3-4' of the snake contorting and spiraling, which is what this Burm did for about 3 mos. (Trying to remember all this). I live in Md and had another one with the same problem autopsied in the pathology dept at Hopkins. It showed neurological problems, and appeared to be of viral origin. This was when Jacobson was just begining work on the whole problem. I kept both boas and pythons at the time, but can't remember how many animals got it, but it wasn't a lot of them. No boas, tho.
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

By the way...you have to picture this. Myself, 6'5", looking rather disheveled, long coat, carrying a large canvas bag of about 60lbs over my shoulder, walking the halls of Johns Hopkins Hospital, asking for the pathology dept. Got a few weird looks......but nobody asked me what was in the bag
-----
1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC