Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am very new to Thayeri and but have managed to pick up 2.5 over the last several months. At what size would you recomend I attempt breeding the females? I have several 03 females, but compared to my Hondos I am at a lose. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
William

If they can eat a good size rat fuzzy, they are most likely big enough to breed. There are many schools of thought on what is or is not the right size to breed. Most thayeri range in the 30" or larger size group. I'm sure other guys will share their views as they read your post.

Russ

Thanks Russ
I have been looking at your Thayeri as well as some of the other guys that post in here and they are incredible. Look forward to next years hatchlings as my wife would kill me right now if I bought another snake.
Thanks again,
William
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1.1 Anery. Hondos '05
1.0 Tang. Het Hypo Hondos '04
0.1 Tang. Hondo '04
1.2 Tang. Het Pinbanded Hypo Hondos '05
1.1 Tricolor Het Albino Hondos '05
2.0 Jurrasic Kings '05
1.0 Alb. Striped Cal King '05
0.1 Alb. Leopard Gecko
1.1 Pueblan Adults
1.1 Sinaloan Adults
1.1 Thayeri Adults
1.1 Alb & Normal Nelson Adults
1.2 Thayeri '05
0.1 Wife
1.1 Kids
0.1 German Shepard

Ideal size is between 250-300 grams. I know that they can breed at much smaller sizes but you'll have better results at larger sizes.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

It is nothing personal, just comparing Honduran size to Thayeri size struck me as funny. Can you imagine a six-foot Thayeri?

Anyway, now that I’m done entertaining myself… I would say a female in the spring of her third year (2.5 years) is going to be big enough under most conditions. My breeders have ranged from 33 inches to 39 inches; I have a scale but never weighed them. It is more a matter of how they look. If they are over 30 inches, with good body weight and at least in their second year (an exception) they should be fine (I personally would wait if they were only 30 inches though). I have one that is small for her age that I should not have breed in her third year (last year) but tried – only got two babies and it took time for her to recover. She had no problem double clutching this year but I had more body weight on her (she is 33 inches). Another double clutched last year at less than two years without a problem; she was 35 inches and thick so I tried it. This year she probably would have triple clutched if I tried without any problem, she ovulated a third time but I never put a male with her. She is just a beast (she is 37 inches now). I had not even cooled her when she bred the first time. Another I had in the past was 38 inches by her second year and thick bodied, you would think one that size would breed no problem but, all her eggs were infertile, her fault? The first two I had (ten years ago) I just waited until they were in their third year and 36/37 inches.

This probably isn’t helping much, but if you have experience breeding other colubrids, you know when they look right or not for breeding. I knew the female I tried last year didn’t quite look “fit” even though she was almost three, I’m still mad at myself for trying – I knew better. The other females were young but were large and looked fit, I had no qualms about breeding them. Others people wait until the females “fourth year”, that would certainly eliminate most concerns. Once they are an adult size (32 to 40 inches) it is a matter of good body weight (not fat though!). I avoid feeding pinkie and hoppers (mice or rats) to adults because they have too much fat.

Alot of useful information there for inexperienced breeders.

Rick, would you (or anyone else for that matter) happen to have any pictures of females you would consider "fit" vs. pictures where they would be "unfit" for breeding. Since determination of breeding size can be subjective, an illustrative comparison would be extremely helpful.

Maria

>>Alot of useful information there for inexperienced breeders.
>>
>>Rick, would you (or anyone else for that matter) happen to have any pictures of females you would consider "fit" vs. pictures where they would be "unfit" for breeding. Since determination of breeding size can be subjective, an illustrative comparison would be extremely helpful.
>>
>>Maria

Maria,
I don't know how useful it is but here are a couple pictures that I hope show fit vs. unfit (to breed).

The first pic is of a male breeder but it works for this. He has good body weight, thick in the middle and around the back half of the body and his neck area is even "fuller" looking. I would want a female to look like this before breeding her (except for the being a male in the pic). Any more weight and he would be fat, also watch for lumps and bumps (especially around the tail third of body) as a sign the food has too much fat.

The second Pic is my smaller female after her second clutch. Now she is not anorexic by any means but look carefully and you can see she just doesn't have the "thickness" of the snake in the first pic. There is a hint of a back line showing because she just doesn't have good weight after breeding. She is chubby now.

It is subtle but obvious if you are looking. Hope this helps, I’m sure some of the other breeders can explain it better than I am. I’m more of the “seat of your pants” breeder than the smarter people who weigh them.

"It is subtle but obvious if you are looking".

Rick, you are right...it is obvious when you compare the two. Thanks for sharing!

Maria

Learning to visually judge these snakes like you do is perfect in my opinoin and easy to learn after raising and breeding a few. I'm pretty much dead-on with what you do. I don't own a scale, thought of buying one but realized that looking at them and judging by what I see is the best way to make the decision. A scale for me would just be a tool to allow me to record stats which isn't necessary. My eyes tell me all I need to know also. Using the 30" / 300 gram minimum for starting a young female is a good minimum guideline, but common sense tells you that a 39" / 300 gram female may be a little too unprepared to do well, so you have to toss the 300 gram minimum out the door at some point and go visual anyway.

Thanks for the great info and sharing your experiences.

Mike

Rick,
Thanks and any info at this point is helpful. A six foot Thayeri would be a sight to see, but if they ate anything like my Thayeri on that scale I would go broke very quickly.
Thanks Again,
William
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1.1 Anery. Hondos '05
1.0 Tang. Het Hypo Hondos '04
0.1 Tang. Hondo '04
1.2 Tang. Het Pinbanded Hypo Hondos '05
1.1 Tricolor Het Albino Hondos '05
2.0 Jurrasic Kings '05
1.0 Alb. Striped Cal King '05
0.1 Alb. Leopard Gecko
1.1 Pueblan '01
1.1 Sinaloan '02
1.0 Thayeri MP '02
0.2 Thayeri MP '03
1.1 Alb & Normal Nelson Adults
0.1 Thayeri MP '04
1.2 Thayeri LP '05
0.1 Wife
1.1 Kids
0.1 German Shepard