Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My bf brought a box turtle he found in a parking lot that had been hit. If it was me, I would have moved her somewhere grassy but I wasn't with him.
I have absoutely no idea where she came from because there are no trees or any wild areas anywhere near this place. Anyways, she's banged up horribly and also has worms.
Before her plastron hinges, there is a huge bloody crack. Not a lot of meat is coming out or anything but it doesnt seem to be healing.
I've got her in a tank with a UVB and heat lamp. I'm offering her the same greens, fruits, and veggies I give my other babies. Also tried worms and crickets, but I cant tell if she's eating the worms. She hasn't touched the crixs though. She's incredibly dehydrated so I've been giving her baths a couple of times a day.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/SchismGrl18/tank2blur.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/SchismGrl18/tank5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/SchismGrl18/tank4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/SchismGrl18/tank3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/SchismGrl18/tankbooboo1.jpg
The vet told me to find a good wooded place and let her go. He said with parastic worms, often, when turtles are given dewormer, it kills them. Also, he said they could do a procedure where they use FIBERGLASS?!?! to connect the shell back together, but he thought over time it would heal himself.
I let her go in accordance with the stupid vet, but when I went back a day later she was in the same spot. She did seem to be doing a lot better before I let her go - much more active, eyes open, gnawing on fruits. She hadn't moved, which of course concerns me, but since she's been back in her tank, she's been pretty active. I felt so horrible when I went back and he was still there...
I'm going to another vet this week. Last chance. I'm trying to find a wildlife rehbab.

1) Does there happen to be anything I can do for her while I wait for the next vet consultation? She still doesn't seem to be eating much.
2)Are there any specific "treats" box turtles just can't resist?

She has been opening her eyes and keeping them open for longer periods of time since I started the baths.
I don't need lectures on taking animals out of the wild, I just need help. Thanks.

Ok I so disagree with the vet you saw.
Bloody injury not treated within 24 hours after it happens almost always ends in infection. So that infection would need to be treated before a shell repair happens.
Parasites are easy to test for & easy to treat in turtles as long as the correct medication is used. If ivermectin is used then yes they'll drop dead but there are generally safe meds to use IF they are needed.
As for repairing the shell it for sure can be done!
I have one who was repaired 9 days ago & he was in much worse shape than yours. My Shell E was hurt about as bad as the one you have now, maybe a little worse, her shell was repaired & that was 5 & 1/2 years ago, she's fine today.
Here's the one who was hurt so badly & repaired 9 days ago so you can see that it can be done:

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PHRatz

Foods! There is no magic food for them, each one tends to have it's own likes & dislikes. It can be a tough thing finding something they will eat.
Try earthworms, mealworms, nightcrawlers, squash, apple, berries, live crickets, try washed sardines as PHLaure tried with hers, he actually ate them.
Bloodworms, uhmm a little cooked chicken.. heck try everything except the kitchen sink & see if this one will go for it.

No lectures from me about taking one out of the wild which is what I did with the one I posted the photo of. I am not one to do that most of the time but in a case where it's they live or die depending on whether or not I take them in, I'd rather have them live.
Healing the shell can take 1-2 or more years so there will be no hibernating of an imjured one either. You don't want to have it repaired then end up with it dead from hibernation. btw do you have a way to keep this one heated? I didn't with the one I just took in other than I put a heating pad under his cage, put a thick layer of towels in the cage & that keeps him warm for now until I can do something else. Towels that can be changed out daily are great substrate for those who are injured.
Good luck & please let us know what happens next.
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PHRatz

Good luck with the injury. My vet gave a shot of baytril/cortezone for infection. He put something else in to create time release. Then he cleaned with zymox Otic enzymatic solution and closed the gap with super glue that can be used on skin. He said that when the glue peals off, I could use a liquid bandage on it. He suggested putting her back outside in a week. He also said that I could purchase the same super glue and use it. I had no idea how long it takes to heal, but she looks much better already. How do you know that that the turtle has worms? I couldn't make all the pix work, maybe I missed something? mahalo/p

I disagree with what the first vet told me as well, which is why I am going to another one.
I know she has worms because she defecated once and...it was moving. On closer inspection, I saw stingy white worms and it creeped the crap outta me. I can't tell if she's eaten her veggies/fruits, but it she pooped, she had to have eaten something, right? I've read the debates on here about treating turtles for worms when some are considered to be natural and benefical, but since she's not eating, my own amateur guess is that its either the worms or a respiratory infection that's affflicting her (she keeps her eyes closed a lot, and when I bathe her, whiteish mucus comes off her eyelids). I've heard the eye thing can be a sign of respiratory infections, but she doesn't have a snotty nose or labored, raspy breathing. I know I'm not a vet and I'm not going to treat her with meds or anything on my own; I'm just lookin for feedback to help my baby.
Thanks for all the replies and for not chastising me.
She's under a heat and UVB lamp, temp at 86. Baths twice a day, with frequent misting in between. As far as live prey, I've tried earthworms, crickets, waxworms, and silkworms (a stretch I know). Baby food didn't work either. Any objections to trying wet dog food? The vet couldn't get me in till Friday and I'm becoming increasingly nervous.

She's probably not eating because she is in pain. Pain management is often overlooked in reptiles however it is just as important as it is with cats and dogs.

While internal parasites may be a problem, it wouldn't be on the top of the agenda. She's wild, and she's used to them.

The extent of the injury is hard to picture without well, a picture. Best thing for the turtle is to have a vet examine it. Chances are it's minor and antibiotics and topical ointments will work. Major shell trauma's are often closed with fibreglass and epoxy, so don't think that vet was nuts based on that, albeit new theory favors treating it as an open wound. If dehydration is a concern (your vet will honestly be the best judge of that), then more than bathing will be needed; an intraossous catheter would probably be placed.

www.arav.com and it's link to herpvetconnection are both good places to find herp vets. Also ask for referals from local vet clinics and herp societies.

Ian

Some parasite larva will travel around the body depending on what stage they are in in their life cycle and they can actually cause respiratory symptoms. So that could account for why this one seems to have some resp. symptoms or it could be bacterial infection. Hopefully the next vet is experienced with reptiles and will treat this turtle as it needs to be treated.

As for wet dog food, I'd try it just to see if it worked as long as it's a good quality food & not the cheapest thing on the grocery store shelf. Dog food shouldn't be the regular diet but in a case where you need to get one to eat it's worth a try.
Like the cooked chicken I mentioned, I don't feed mine that on a regular basis, they're lucky if they get it once a year but if I need one to eat, I'll try it.
Food that's not particularly best for them can be better than nothing at all.
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PHRatz

Bone must meet bone for a fractured shell to heal correctly.

Bonding material must never be allowed/placed in the fracture site to hold the 2 sides together. Have had many turtles brought into rehab repaired with superglue. Once the superglue gives the fracture isn't healed and the blood supply has died back. This method will never allow the shell to heal without surgery (basically have to grind back to the blood supply).

Trying to even move away from the epoxy/fiberglass method as infection can get trapped inside and one can never see it. Have had many brought in this way too which resulted in permanent shell damage as it is often done incorrectly as well.

A newer method is one using hooks which are held in place with epoxy and wires to pull the fracture site together. It allows the wound to breathe and one to be able to monitor the healing or watch for infection.

Hope this helps some turtle somewhere!

Good luck, jen

Exactly Jen! I just thought I'd make it clear to other readers that this is all done by a veterinarian and under anesthetic. I don't wan't people to be pinning and wiring themselves!

FYI, it's not superglue that is used, but tissue glue. It's application is usefull, but not in complete fractures where it'll cause a mal-union as you have mentioned

Ian

>>Exactly Jen! I just thought I'd make it clear to other readers that this is all done by a veterinarian and under anesthetic. I don't wan't people to be pinning and wiring themselves!

Let me tell you Ian, putting them together while they're awake is such a hassle it's not even worth it to try.
Chip's vet wasn't in over the weekend when we brought him home. We put him together somewhat with a little epoxy but just enough to stablize him because gawd when he moved his plastron went every which way.
We did just enough to keep him stable until the vet could see him. That helped his pain level some I think. She took off what we'd put on but she didn't use pins or wires. Mader's book recommends against that however when the forthcoming 2nd edition arrives in the near future, that may be changed info?

I agree a vet is needed no matter what and pain management is often overlooked. Chip got pain meds after he was put back together by the vet & I could tell that really helped him a lot.
Pain for the turtle we're talking about now could be something that really does need to be addressed.
At least Friday when this one sees a different vet is only a day away.
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PHRatz

I'm not sure how often you come across shell trauma's but the best first aid available to "stabalize the fracture" is to cover with a non'adhesive bandage like telfa, and then wrap the entire turtle in vetwrap or clingwrap, ... I"m not sure what brand it is in the states, but that stuff that only clings to itself.

Ian

>>I'm not sure how often you come across shell trauma's but the best first aid available to "stabalize the fracture" is to cover with a non'adhesive bandage like telfa, and then wrap the entire turtle in vetwrap or clingwrap, ... I"m not sure what brand it is in the states, but that stuff that only clings to itself.
>>
>>Ian

VetWrap is what it's called here or Co-Flex is another brand that I can think of off the top of my head.
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PHRatz