Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I work in a petstore, as some of you might know. I have more reptile experience than our Reptile Dept. Manager, who is a friend of mine. He sometimes listens to what i have to say, but he takes notoriously little notice of how important humidity and visual barriers are to chams. That being said, we have FOUR six inch veils (two pair) in a 20 gallon Tall aquarium. They get misted twice a day for 30 seconds. This makes me REALLY mad and ive been telling him we need to get them separated out at least into one pair per cage, but all he says is "they'll be alright, its not like theyre going to be in there fro very long..." which, of course, makes me still madder.

Yesterday he had the gall to send a little female home with a kid thats probably 10 years old...tell her she can handle it on a regular basis for "five minutes at a time", and put it in a TEN GALLON AQUARIUM! *gag* I am SO mad. I didnt get a chance to tell him how wrong he was to even suggest that they put it in an all glass enclosure. He didnt tell them that she could get eggbound, he didnt tell them how important the proper humidity is, i dont think he even sold them a heat lamp for her because he has no idea what the proper temps for veils ARE... I had the chance to talk to the clients while he was boxing the cham and give them my email address and stuff, so they could contact someone who KNOWS about chams and has first hand experience, but i dont konw if they will...

It just makes me SO mad that someone could do that without any thought to the cham. We have a perfectly good enclosure for them (65 gallon lizard lounge) that he chooses to put anoles and treefrogs in "because it looks better" I'm sorry, but chams having space to move is a little mroe important than looking good imho. I cant say anything to the owner because all he cares about is the presentation and that they sell, so im stuck between ar ock and a hard place. I'd buy the rest of them if i had a place to put them and then raise them up and sell them on my own to people who were right for them, but that would only perpetuate the problem.

*grr*

i HATE the fact that petstores can sell chams!!
*growlgrowl*
Jamie
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Jamie A. Stine and the Gang:

0.1 Jacksons Chamelions (Clank) (we miss you, ratchett)
1.0 Veiled Chamelion (George)
1.1 Bearded Dragons (Lancelot & Guenivere)
1.0 Giant Frog Eyed Geckos (Peanut Butter)
0.0.1 Albino Pac Man Frog (Hermann)
0.1 Borneo Short Tailed Python (Ezmerelda)
0.1 Red Tailed Boa (Buffy)
1.0 Short Tailed O'possum (Jethro)
1.0 Greyhound (Hank)

Save a life, adopt a retired racer!

I don't know what to say about this. On the one hand, perhaps you should go over his head to ensure the well being of the chameleons. On the other hand, maybe you should stick to the old addage 'you can catch more flies with sugar than vinegar'...
Either way can be bad. Speak up and you might lose your job, say nothing and the chams suffer.
Maybe look into another old addage 'easier to ask forgiveness than permission'. Meaning take matters into your own hands. Don't ask if you can fix something, just go ahead and do it. If he asks about it afterwards, tell him you thought he had told you to do it.
Or try the business aspect by appealing to the bottom line. Remind him how much better HEALTHY, well cared for chameleons sell, and that it's in the store's best interest to offer GOOD husbandry tips to customers. Remind him that miffed customers will tell at least 12 friends about their bad experience with the store, whereas good experiences build customer loyalty.
I'm sure you can turn this situation around!
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Jamie, you say he's a friend of yours. Have you tried to talk with him about it when you are not at work - say over a cup of coffee or something? Not at coffeee break, I mean both totally removed from the situation. Another idea is to invite him to see your chams and their setup (or has he already?) to get a better understanding.

I commend you for working in a pet store and trying to make a difference and give you a LOT of credit! I don't think I could - a little too outspoken

keep us posted,
lele

Vic and Lele,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I'm already walking on thin ice at my job because im too outspoken and they want to get rid of me, so telling the owner about how badly the veils are being taken care of will do no good.

The problem with talking to the reptile guy about chameleon husbandry is that his ego about being manager wont let him listen to what i have to say. Ive tried with our baby bearded dragons many many times (they only get about 30 small crix 1 x daily, which is not enough). I've tried a friendly approach, ive offered to get him caresheets, ive offered to direct him to links and ive even asked if he wanted to read this forum, and he just blows me off. I'm not forceful about it because i dont want to fight with him and probably get written up again. The only thing i can do is pass my knowledge on to the customer. I cant even tell the other employees not to let people handle the chams (they get taken out of their cage regularly and BOY do they turn black! Weird though, when i take them out to show people they stay green... dunno whats up with that.) because im not the manager, and people have accused me of overstepping my bounds when i do do that.

THEREFORE..im stuck! I have to sit and watch these chams suffer and it really hurts. I dont let people touch them unless theyre adults and theyre seriously looking to buy, and i explain that these are not pets to be handled, etc. Most people are really understanding about it, but ive had a few people with small children who want to see them get a little mad; when i explain that chams are sensitive, theyre usually ok, but sometimes it gets a little sticky.

*argh*
Jamie
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Jamie A. Stine and the Gang:

0.1 Jacksons Chamelions (Clank) (we miss you, ratchett)
1.0 Veiled Chamelion (George)
1.1 Bearded Dragons (Lancelot & Guenivere)
1.0 Giant Frog Eyed Geckos (Peanut Butter)
0.1 Borneo Short Tailed Python (Ezmerelda)
0.1 Red Tailed Boa (Buffy)
1.0 Short Tailed O'possum (Jethro)
1.0 Greyhound (Hank)

Save a life, adopt a retired racer!

I feel your pain. I can't stand going into shops that obviously don't care about their animals. I couldn't imagine WORKING in one. Have you looked into working at any other shops near you? If you could find a job and quit... and work at a store that CARES about their animals, I think you could do a lot of more good there. Also, if you do find another job, you can be more outspoken and tell your boss that he is not looking after the animals. You you then also contact any animal centres in your area (SPCA etc) and have them contact your boss. You could also possibly contact a better business bureau or something like that to see what the requirements are for stores like yours, as far as looking after animals to the best of capabilities. It is obvious that you have made it clear to your boss that he is not looking after them well. I would think that could go against him somewhere... Also, if you get fired for informing him about how to care for animals, I would think that that would be an unjust cause. You would have to get some kind of (I can't think of the word... settlement?). It would suck to get fired, but ifyou can get another job lined up that would help.
Maybe this would get it through his head? There aren't really a lot of ways to deal with people like that. It's either turn your head, or fight really hard. Both are extreemly crappy.
I lost a really good friendship over how the other person cared for their animals... so I can kind of relate to your situation.
Also, if there is only one pet store in your area, you could probably write some kind of article for your local paper. You wouldn't have to use their name.. just have it be a "check pet stores before you buy" kind of thing. This could possibly make the public more aware (and lets face it, there being naieve is why these stores are still making money) and possible foce the store to look after their animals to save business.
Just a few other thoughts. Kind of extreme, but it sounds like you have done a lot already. Best of luck, keep us posted!
~Lindsay

here you go....set up some friends (herp lovers if possible but basic animal lovers are good, too) that the manager doesn't know, and have them go in as cutomers. They can express interest in the chams and say they have been doing their homework before buying and have some questions. They can nicely question the contradictory advice from the manager. Have one go in maybe every other week and you steer clear of the whole thing. Some may think I am joking, but I am not. Now you may feel that is too risky, but if you get the right people who can play dumb or truly be uninformed it might work. Don't have to make a big deal about it just enough for him to maybe question his setups. If this were in my area I would gladly be one....not in NH are you? LOL!

Of course it may not phase him in the least and that's when I would find another job and call whatever local herp and/or humane society.

I feel for you!

lele

>>Vic and Lele,
>>
>>Thanks for your suggestions.
>>
>>I'm already walking on thin ice at my job because im too outspoken and they want to get rid of me, so telling the owner about how badly the veils are being taken care of will do no good.
>>
>>The problem with talking to the reptile guy about chameleon husbandry is that his ego about being manager wont let him listen to what i have to say. Ive tried with our baby bearded dragons many many times (they only get about 30 small crix 1 x daily, which is not enough). I've tried a friendly approach, ive offered to get him caresheets, ive offered to direct him to links and ive even asked if he wanted to read this forum, and he just blows me off. I'm not forceful about it because i dont want to fight with him and probably get written up again. The only thing i can do is pass my knowledge on to the customer. I cant even tell the other employees not to let people handle the chams (they get taken out of their cage regularly and BOY do they turn black! Weird though, when i take them out to show people they stay green... dunno whats up with that.) because im not the manager, and people have accused me of overstepping my bounds when i do do that.
>>
>>THEREFORE..im stuck! I have to sit and watch these chams suffer and it really hurts. I dont let people touch them unless theyre adults and theyre seriously looking to buy, and i explain that these are not pets to be handled, etc. Most people are really understanding about it, but ive had a few people with small children who want to see them get a little mad; when i explain that chams are sensitive, theyre usually ok, but sometimes it gets a little sticky.
>>
>>*argh*
>>Jamie
>>-----
>>Jamie A. Stine and the Gang:
>>
>>0.1 Jacksons Chamelions (Clank) (we miss you, ratchett)
>>1.0 Veiled Chamelion (George)
>>1.1 Bearded Dragons (Lancelot & Guenivere)
>>1.0 Giant Frog Eyed Geckos (Peanut Butter)
>>0.1 Borneo Short Tailed Python (Ezmerelda)
>>0.1 Red Tailed Boa (Buffy)
>>1.0 Short Tailed O'possum (Jethro)
>>1.0 Greyhound (Hank)
>>
>> Save a life, adopt a retired racer!

Good i dea!

Sometimes you reach a point where talking no longer cuts it, and you either have to stick to your convictions, or turn a blind eye. Perhaps finding another job would be best for you. Find a place that shares your philosophies and listens to you. Better than banging your head against a wall. You'll just end up with a terrible headache, feeling bad, and you won't have changed anything.
Don't quit your job until you find something solid! Good luck to you.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I've been in this situation too (the store owner was OK...just too busy and left things up to a jerky manager). So, after fighting it a long time I simply decided to work around the jerk. First, I had the other employees agree to refer cham customers to me (because I bowled them over with my cham smarts ) Then I cultivated a good relationship with the customer, chatted about my chams, showed a lot of personal attention so they knew I cared. I carried a few private sneak lists of online sites for the right info, had a list of "suggested equipment with prices" and books and made sure the shop carried them (hey, often they are a bit more expensive than the junk so the shop could make some money), gave them my home phone as you did, offered any advice any time for free, and even got their phone # to "follow up after the sale as part of our customer service". I also gave the the name of the best local herp vet...because they would most likely need it if they ignored me. I eventually quit the job, told the manager off at the busiest time in front of customers in a non-emotional way, reported the shop's neglect to the city and they were cited for animal negligence...partly because I could show my own care info, show other care info that agreed, and specifically highlighted the shop's neglect. An anonymous letter to the editor of the paper helped too.

If you could tell us the location of this store (I know...it's uncomfortable for many of us here to tell where we are) possibly one of us here lives close enough to go into this store, observe how the chams and other reptiles are kept and then take the manager aside and gently (arrgh!) inform him of his lousy (uh...incorrect) husbandry. If he refuses to clean up his act then that person can simply tell him that the ASPCA will be informed plus a letter written to the newspaper. I personally think that going over his head will not produce much. The Board of Directors is more interested in selling than using proper husbandry and if they lose a few chams...well...so what...they can buy more to replace them.

I know how this infuriates you, large petshops want people who keep their mouths shut and turn their heads. Hearing stuff like this makes me want to rip my hair out.

Keep us posted.

Marilyn