Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i have what i think is a white throat but overall lenght it is about 4 feet but from head to vent he is only 17 inches he is very stalcky. he is built like a tegu and he eats like a tegu but looks like a white throat. could it be a cross????
just because i think it great i got him for 14 cent!
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Well first off, theres no such thing as a tegu/monitor cross. And how exactly does a tegu eat? I dont understand when you say that. Post pictures of it and Ill tell you what it is.

17 cents! You got ripped off.

They both put tegus to shame, in fact most monitors put tegus to shame when it comes to eating. How many 3ft tegus will regularly eat 9-12 adult mice at a time, let alone 12-25 small adult mice at a time when a few inches longer. I have a BT that was a recent import, hes missing a bit of tail, should be around 4ft long, he can eat large rats already.

Those 2 are not even near each others genus. WTs and BTs can cross, the same species, argus/flavi/gouldi can cross as they are the same complex and close enough to the same species, in fact at one time they were all classified as gouldi only gouldi panoptes, gouldi flavirufus, etc. Ornatus and niloticus can cross, they are close enough related to be able to.
Tegus are related to whiptails, ameivas,etc. Monitors are all varanids, completely different the only features even shared is that they are lizards and sometimes use similar niches in nature.

...their size and awesomeness are similar characteristic between the Teiidae and Varanidae
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2.2.0 RES (Bowser, Angela, Leo, April)
1.0.0 V. Albigularis (Godzilla)
1.0.0 Z. Quadrilineatus (Yago)
1.0.0 Python Regius (Kaa)
1.0.0 Cat (Garfield)

I have a four foot Argentine Black and White that eats like there is no tomorrow, I personally prefer tegus to monitors, but like Shvar said, tegu that out eats a blackthroat/whitethroat, unlikely, but not entirely impossible, crossing the two, is like crossing a ferret and a rabbit.
thanks
Tony Butler

If youve ever experienced a healthy argus or argus cross eating you would see what I mean, they eat like growing albigs do, and you cant figure out where the food disappears to.

It is a myth that animals have to be of the same species or even terribly close to the same species to successfully reproduce. Just look at snakes. There are many burm x retics, ball x bloods, and even woma x Irian Jaya carpet pythons! You might be able to argue a close kinship of the burms and retics, but not really of the ball and bloods, which are from two completely different continents, and certainly not of the womas and carpets! Traditional speciation thoughts like that are quickly being tossed out the window due to both modern genetic analysis and even production of captive hybrids. Afterall, if the definition of species remained that it was animals which could or would only breed with each other, then we'd have to conclude that womas and carpets were the same species, etc etc etc.

All that being said, I believe most likely Teiidae (tegus and other lizards) and Varanidae (monitors) are too far distinct to successfully reproduce, but I wouldn't discount the idea completely.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

By genetics such as the last reclassification of monitors. This system was announced to take years and years to reclassify snakes and lizards and will completely change most snake species. Only a true species or complex of species can cross, thats the only way genetics allows reproduction, note dogs, coyotes, wolf, etc.
A teid and a varanid cannot and never will cross, completely different animals. Varanids are related more closely to gilas and the Borneo earless monitor han any other lizard, teids are related to whiptails (their closest relative) and ameivas, also along the same lineage of other American lizards. Varanids are old world lizards.

Though there definitely is some work needing to be done on snake taxonomy, I can guarantee you that you will never see Aspidites and Morelia in the same genus, much less species! You will also not see ball and blood pythons thrown together because they can reproduce. Do you personally believe all these snakes which can produce hybrids, some of which are fertile and can definitely produce offspring, are actually the same species? I certainly hope not.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

They can also be changed from one species to another, its done all of the time in reclassifications, its only a matter of time, certain snakes were reclassified already in the last several years.

This name-game thing is not arbitrary Shvar - it is done so zoologists know who is related to whom, how closely they are related to whom, and sometimes they know why and when - the genetic material often helps with that sometimes - so it is not merely "lets change this name for name-sake".... just because the pet-trade people change names arbitrarily does not mean that zoologists/herpetologists do too... and because a species may cross species and breed with another complex does not imply they are closly related - merely their gametes recognize one another when they encounter one another in the oviducts.

cheers,
markb

Right - that's about like breeding komodos with carolina anoles!!!
Tegus share class ONLY. Both their genus and species are different.
POST A PHOTO

the hybrids may happen but as far as I know the hybrids, the carpetXGTP,CarpetXwoma,and the carpetXmacklots all of the offspring has been sterile, except for the super ball and the bateaters(reticXburm?) have produced viable offspring, and it does happen but a tegu and a monitor lizard, not going to happen black and whites cant even produce with reds, and reds can only reproduce with blues and the offspring are always sterile. Besides, arent the hemipenes structered completely different?
thanks
tony butler

So, how then has St. Pierre produced 2nd generation Red/Blue Tegu crosses?

could he have been kept in a small cage and just bucked out? and if so he has a room now will fill back out the right way?
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Considering that the carpet x woma hybrids were just produced this year, and the carpondros last year or the year before, I don't believe anyone has grown them large enough to breed and test whether they were sterile or not. Of course, there are other means to test for sterility or fertility, but I don't think NERD (who produced the carpet x womas) have checked those, though I could be wrong. And besides, the point I was making was that he said in order to crossbreed, period, the animals have to be within the same species. That's obviously not true since many genetically separate species can reproduce viable (living, healthy) offspring. Speaking of the hemipenes though, with lizards, that certainly could play a role. With snakes, all hemipenes are basically structurally similar, but the difference between Teiidae and Varanidae hemipenes could probably be so different as to prevent successful copulation. Artificial insemination could be a possibility then, but not very likely.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

To even match up genetics for a cross to happen even in a test tube.

Most arent, infact look at many ackies sold that have red and yellow crossed, albigs produced by Rob Faust were hybrids, he was on generation 2 (BT/WT/WT), look at pine/gopher crosses, pine/bull crosses, etc. There are so many hybrids out there.
Hybrids are only sterile if genetics make them that way, depends jackass are sterile, but thats only one example.
Blue and red tegus are close enough related, a complex in a way, they can breed.

A species can be defined from a another from geologic reproductive barriers, so in canptivity, many more things are possible.

They are so far different from each other that its not possible. Yes geographic barriers cause evolution to make different species in the same complex or different subspecies, all who can innerbreed. Its like trying to cross their closest relatives (varanoids) gilas, to whiptails (the tegus closest relative), by the way even tegus and whiptails cannot cross, all whiptails are female, monitors and gilas cannot cross either, too far apart in relation.
This discussion turned from some asking if it was possible to have an albig/tegu cross, NO its not possible, into a discussion about all kinds of hybrids, lol.

Its been very interesting, this post, I have learned alot from all of you, and have had rumors that I have heard on other forums dispelled, it has been a good thread.
thanks
tony butler

At this point in time. They only way to test what will cross with what is to do it. Reptiles do not follow the same rules as a horse and a donkey=mule. In fact, fish do not follow those rules, nor do birds, nor do snakes, and as we learn more, I believe varanids will follow suit.

The rules we were taught were very naive, that is, they were from a very limited sample and assumed to fit all life forms. Just reading that sentence indicates it had to be wrong. hahahahaha

Also, the main problem is. Scientific names are manmade and change like the wind. So what happens when two animals are bred when they are the same species, then the names change and they are no longer the same species????? Will that change the results???????

I have no doubt that a tegu can breed a varanid, the question would be, what the heck would result and would it be viable? of course all the predictions in the world will not work. But the doing will bring some answers, but only some. Because, there are millions of ways to do the it. FR

I agree with you Frank. Species are being crossed more and more, especially over the last couple of decades, re-writing what we had believed was the truth. This is not only happening in the "designer" reptile trade, but sometimes even in nature.

You are also right about scientific names and classifications being man-made. They are only as good as the scientists that have classified them and the data that they had when they did. The constant changes, especially over the last 10-15 years should be enough to show anyone of the general disagreement of what is and what is not a species. As gene sequencing and DNA becomes the accepted norm instead of comparative zoology, more and more species that we thought were so different may not be and vice versa.

Having no doubt that a tegu and a monitor could cross is a little too strong a statement, even though outwardly they look similar in some respects. Most species that cross end up dying quickly or not being viable in some other way (if they even hatch or are born), but there are always those that come out as a new type of animal. Who knows what the future will hold? I see many new commercial prospects in the future for such oddities, but personally, I am ethically against it. I guess that I am just a purist in this respect.

Cheers,

Michael

I said, I am sure they could cross(breed/copulate) but who knows if the offspring will be viable(for the cross/copulation to be successful). Thats not going out to far on that limb. I am sure, they could mount or copulate eachother.

When I was a kid, I had a paper route, I was collecting payment one day. I knocked on the door, the door opened, a little beagle pup walked out and mounted my shoe. Thank goodness that was not viable. FR

After all a few people thought they were going to get a hybrid albig/bosc cross when their WT mounted their bosc, it never went beyond that point, the mounting and copulation. In those cases it was surely like prison sex, dominance,affection, or like that puppy and your shoe.
I wouldnt call it breeding, it could be called mounting, copulation if that happened, but its not breeding until it produces offspring. After all those disgusting Mexican Donkey shows arent breeding.
I know people who have kept tegus and monitors of all types together, with some getting along, males, females, etc etc of each, either they just saw each other as cagemates or cage furniture when they got along, not mates.

Those same people you talk about have not shown a history of successful breeding of any type. On the otherhand, I have and have produced crosses without problem. Even if I didn't want to. hahahahahahahaha

The point is, anything you say is assumption and without merit. Considering all the successful inter-generic crosses that have been done, both in captivity and in nature.

Your opinion is based on your experience level. As is mine. Many years ago when I was not so experienced(old) someone brought in a wild gophersnake/calking cross to San Diego zoo. I went and inspected that weird creature. Its was perfectly between the two. Of course in my naivity at the time, I said it was impossible. Hmmmmmmmmmm another one was then brought in. And of course its been done many times in captivity. So I was wrong.

So in lew of all the current information, broad statements such as yours need to be tested first, not assumed to fit old paradigns. FR