Reptile & Amphibian Forums

gulf hammock rat snakes? i know i have mentioned them a few times and no one has really said anything. i have searched through the forums and all over the net. some things say they are a cross and some dont. i got mine(fluffy, lol) at the hamburg show a little while back from susquehanna ectotherms. i cant find anything on their site either. she is feeding well has grown from about seven inches to 27 in the few months i have had her. i am using basic rat info when it comes to her environment, heating, lighting, and feeding but i still feel like i should be able to find more species specific info. if anyone can help it would be greatly greatly appreciated. also, i was kind of wondering how much they normally cost, if anyone knows. thanks sooo much.
~icy
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"it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
1.0.0 bearded dragon
1.1.0 green iguana
0.0.1 columbian tegu(for sale)
0.1.0 knight anole(looking for male)
0.1.0 green anole
0.1.0 asian longtail grass lizard
1.1.0 golden gecko
1.0.0 ball python
0.0.5 oriental firebellied toad
0.0.1 green treefrog
0.0.1 barking treefrog
0.0.1 cuban masked treefrog
0.0.1 gray treefrog
0.1.0 gulf hammock rat snake
0.1.0 eastern kingsnake
0.1.0 siberian husky

Hi Icy,

These snakes are a natrual intergrade that used to be called E. o. williamsi. They are now more commonly known as E.o. spiloides x E.o quadrivittata (or gray rat x yellow rat). Personally I think we should've kept the williamsi name...less to remember.lol
They come from northwestern peninsular Florida and they retain their saddles into adulthood even when the four stripes arrive.
Hope that info is helpful.
Dusty

I hope that I can help a little here. A Gulf Hammock Snake is a natural occurring color variation of the Gray Rat Snake. These snakes show both stripes and saddles that run the length of their bodies. This should not be confused with Gray Rats that have connecting stripes between their first few saddles. It is my understanding that these snakes are limited to just a few counties on the Florida Panhandle.

I would also like to point out that if you cross a Gray with a Yellow, you do not get a Gulf Hammock Rat Snake. Gulf Hammocks are a stable morph. When you breed two Gulf Hammock Snakes, you only get back offspring that look like the parents (i.e.: Gulf Hammocks). If you took the offspring of a cross between a Yellow and a Gray and breed them to each other (a dihybrid cross), you would get back a group of snakes where some would look like Yellows, some would look like Grays, and most would look in-between.

I have never seen a cross of a Yellow and a Gray in person, but I have seen the cross between a Black and a Yellow. Their offspring had a yellow tint to their belly scales. You do not see this in Gulf Hammock Snakes. (Yes, I have both Grays and a Gulf Hammock in my collection.)

The term intergrade gets used a lot on this forum. Some people use it to indicate a cross between two subspecies while others use the term to describe a stable color morph that is thought to have been produced by the interbreeding of two subspecies over thousands of years. From my readings, both uses are correct, but they do not mean the same thing.

The picture is of a normal Gray Rat Snake that shows connecting stripes between the first four saddles.

I said this. "These snakes are a natural intergrade". I never said anything about them being a cross or a direct hybrid. I was basically paraphrasing right out of Dick Bartlett's book on rat snakes (pgs. 51 and 54).
No one is confusing any terminology here.
Dick says, "The Gulf Hammock variant of northwestern peninsular Florida is also a naturally occurring intergrade between the gray rat and the yellow rat snakes." top right paragraph on pg. 54
Anyone who knows anything about this hobby knows that an intergrade isn't the same thing as a cross.
If that information is now obsolete(no pun intended..lol), please bring us up to speed with a reliable sourse/reference.

so is the care just the same as a grey rat? what about adult size, that is something i have been wondering because of the wide varient of rat snake sizes. btw, my gulf hammock looks like the grey in the pic but she has a stripe down her back that is also on her head.
-----
"it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
1.0.0 bearded dragon
1.1.0 green iguana
0.0.1 columbian tegu(for sale)
0.1.0 knight anole(looking for male)
0.1.0 green anole
0.1.0 asian longtail grass lizard
1.1.0 golden gecko
1.0.0 ball python
0.0.5 oriental firebellied toad
0.0.1 green treefrog
0.0.1 barking treefrog
0.0.1 cuban masked treefrog
0.0.1 gray treefrog
0.1.0 gulf hammock rat snake
0.1.0 eastern kingsnake
0.1.0 siberian husky

I believe all obsoleta care is about the same, with maybe some minor differences for different subspecies. I wouldn't be the best person to answet that, though. I have taken quite a few Texas rat bites near where I grew up in Houston, so obsoleta never was one of those I just had to bring home. I grew up around the wrong type of obsoleta, I guess. lol No offense to you lindi guys. Great snakes, but I'll stick with my subocs.
One cool aspect of obsoleta-culture is that they are excellent climbers that are often active during the day to bask. If you can provide one with a really big cage with lots of ledges, raised platforms, etc., then it should make a really good display snake.
If you ever visit the Houston Zoo, they have a really cool, even artistic Texas Rat display that looks like the inside of a barn.
I haven't found any literature on their size, but I am guessing that they would be one of the larger American rats as yellows are the second largest and grays have reached over 84 inches.
Good luck! shoot me an e-mail and I will try to refer you to someone who should know more about GHRS care specifics, if any.
Dusty