Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've seen the price of pastels plummet over the past few months, and it just hit me why...What are your thoughts?

Pastels are the "cheapest" and "easiest to produce" morph out there. So, people with wanting to get in are going to purchase a pastel and females. When they produce, they MUST sell them to recoup the costs. Now, when you have tons of people starting off, depending on selling the pastels to make back their starting "debt", there is no other choice but to sell cheaper.

Why do they dump the price? Because they HAVE to. It's the morph all the newbies start with (from what I understand) and it's the newbies in particular (I'm one) who HAVE to make back the money...unless they're in it just for fun (that's closer to what I'm doing), and then, they don't mind selling for less...they don't have to make a killing. Just my opinion.
Jeremy
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

You'll also find differences of THOUSANDS of dollars on the higher end morphs as well. Same morph, same line, same sex....10 different prices...what "investor" wouldn't hesitate after they see that sort of trend? If I were in the market for a pastel, I wouldn't buy one today. If you watch the classifieds, the prices are dropped all the time. Of course once someone buys they'll complain about the prices when they go to sell, but everyone wants to buy in cheap! Ahh....whatever! LOL, take care!

Paul

Here is my take on this:

I knew I could only afford a pastel as my first morph. I set out to find which ones I liked. I decided to buy the best pastel I could find. I really liked the Lemon Pastels so I started to look at them. Of course that led to my emailing NERD about them and the lines of communication were opened. What I ended up with is a hnad picked Lemon Pastel by Kevin for me, the nobody. I paid more than I set out to spend in the begining but what I got was greater in value. I have a killer Lemon and some good advice on my snake and how to raise and breed him. I have never asked a question that hasn't been answered by Kevin or Kara. Kevin worked around my busy schedule to make sure I could be home when the snake was delivered to my front door. This required him to hold onto the snake another 2-3 weeks then we both intended. My guy came neatly packed and in perfect condition.

Is it worth paying a higher price for a pastel? If you got what I did then I have to say Hell Yeah!

He's awesome! Check him out. These are pictures I took when he first came home. I need to get new ones but my cam is on the fritz

You get what you pay for. I paid a little over 1k for my first Pastel. He is almost 4 months old and is on Small Rats.
Excuse the bad picture, it was taken with a Camera Phone

-----
In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
Support Our Troops

That's great, but when it comes time to sell your offspring, are Kevin and Kara going to help you do so?? Nope, you're gonna be out there with all the other people selling pastels, and newbies aren't gonna pay a higher price for your animals when Joe Shmoe is out there selling 2 for 1.. You do have an OUTSTANDING animal in your collection and got great service from an established BUSINESS, but good service is a standard, not a celebration.. Awesome pastel you have there, one of the nicest I've seen.. Good luck in your future projects.
-----
Joe Lydon

Be that as it may, I didn't mind paying what I did for what I got and if I do sell some offspring in the distant future and people don't appreciate what I have then I guess I'll be holding onto some real nice snakes. Either way, it doesn't matter much to me.

I really think this issue is how you look at it. If you are in any animal (I don't care what it is), to get rich then chances are you're wasting your time and money. I will not say that some don't make a mint as I have seen people in dogs make money hand over fist with a minimal layout. Those people also were overstating what they had and ripping newcomers off. Unfortunately, they were rewarded for such BS.

It's buyer beware and informed in my book. I will say that people paying for someone else's hard work and knowledge need not feel bad while reading this thread. I admit I have really had my feathers ruffled on a few threads like this in the past.

I am in this to acquire a nice personal collection. I don't really care if I sell my offspring or not at the moment. I really hope I will not be one of those people to diminish work and expertise of others before me for the sake of a quick buck. I have seen it happen in dogs and it was not very good at all for the breed I worked with and now they are having to do alot of work to get the breeding stock up to standards again.

Just some newbie two cents from the corner. I'll go quietly now

You've got a very nice Pastel. If you're happy with it, that's absolutely all that matters. Good luck with him.
-----
Louis Kirkland
Game Ball Pythons

Number one reason why pastels are dropping like a rock - just look at this forum - everytime someone who has no business breeding snakes comes here and asks whats the best morph to buy to get into breeding balls - everyone says "buy a pastel male and five normal females." Every Tom Dick and Harry that are only breeding for the money are starting with pastels - their only desire is to make money (quick and simple) and they don't care anything about the market or the snakes - and there are a ship load of ugly pastels out there now to prove it. If that guy happens to have a few dollars more then everyone suggests spiders - hmmm coincidence that these are the two dropping the like bricks? So think about it the next time you answer that post.
-----
Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

np
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

N/P

If Pastels are THE morph that EVERY newbie gets when getting into the "biz", then the demand should be through the roof, and so should the price.

"Easiest to produce"? What makes one morph easier than another? They all breed the same (sort of).

And when you look RELATIVELY, Pastels and albinos have dropped the LEAST and the SLOWEST of all the morphs. Mojaves $50,000 to $8,000 in TWO months??? Spiders $25K to $10K in a 1/2 season? Lessers $60,000 to $12,000 in 2 years?

Pastels have held their price longer than any other morph except Pieds and Albinos.

nm

As always, there's 10 sides to every thought and more angles than you could shake a stick at. Right?!! LOL!

Cheers.

how do you come up with the right to decide who should be allowed to breed their animals and who should not. granted there are some people who are in it for the wrong reasons but who are you to judge!!!!

Say someone loves art, and purchases originals for millions of dollars. If someone else purchases them to turn them around and make millions more, are they doing it for the wrong reason?

I pose this question...Is it wrong to get into bp's for money alone? Say someone doesn't even like them, but b/c of the $$$, they'll make sure the snakes are in perfect condition (protect the investment) and well taken care of. All they want is the check at the end of the day. Is that wrong?

Jeremy
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

You are right Tosha. Breeder buys Pastels and then tells everyone to buy Pastels so he can sell his. The cycle continues for a while and the market becomes flooded and the same breeder is mad because prices plummet.

Before long, you won't be able to say Pastels are the better investment. The prices will drop and supply will get to a point where they may fall out of favor - at least with the get rich quick crowd.
-----
Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

your reason does not make sense to me....

to get back the original "debt" they only need to sell 1 or 2 pastels. If they have 3-4 females to put the pastel with, that leaves them with lots of money left over, even after paying off for the females and housing/heating/incubation.

I can't wait to see little pastel heads... not for the money, but because I love the look of them and I know I can use them to make some really great crosses and supers!

A real reptile lover ends up putting all the "profit" they make on snakes, back into more/different snakes! Or better racks, better heating, better everything for the animals. It's win/win.

As for me, with my profits I plan on buying a really good generator, so my snakes never go cold and their food never thaws out cuz of a power outtage
-----
1.0 gorgeous spider ball python
2.2 het for axanthic
5.20 normals
Blazingreptiles.comup & running!

dave

This is how i see things,
Pastels use to be around 1k years ago, then they proved a super and orange ghosts were breed to them the market went back up. Unfortunatley all high prices will come down with time. If you are looking to buy into balls for the money and not the snake (not saying that every one does that) then that is something you should take into consideration, if your trying to turn a quick buck. If your buying as an investment then you cant exspect to make your money in ten fold by the end of the season, there are MANY things that do not get factored into the breeding season and for beginers sometimes many diappointments show up.you will eventually make your money you just need to give it time. Many people are impatient, i always am, every breeding season, im like a kid on christms morning when things are hatching. Res. morphs will hold there value much longer - clowns have been steady - Lav albinos are going to be huge. Even pieds are just now coming down but given how long they have been around. Ill stop sorry about the rambiling .
Pastel will always be the key to the Bumble Bee and to many others. Its stil an animal youll find in everyones collection.
I paid close to 2k for my first male - do i regret it .. not one bit.
A bit of advice ..
Do it for the love !! And when you see baby snakes hatching and not dollar signs, youll see its worth it..
Good luck to everyone this season buying or breeding.
ok now im done ...=)
sorry for the long post ..

np
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

Sure, it makes sense...Say they sell 6 pastels to make back everything they've put in the first year...do they have a few left over? sure...but even if you're going to put it back into your snakes to buy the equipment (b/c you love them), how do you get the money to purchase everything? You SELL them. Whether a breeder is selling to make back money or selling/trading to get more equipment...they're being sold and the market is flooded...EVEN IF YOU LOVE WHAT YOU'RE DOING! You don't keep all the snakes you produce (I'm not getting heated, just in case it reads like it )
Jeremy
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)

All very true,however i am of the opinion that the market isn't flooded with pastels,only pastel sellers.
The fact is,no snake is worth more than a dollar.Unless some one is willing to pay more.(...but why should they?)
-----
Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Here's my take on this. The ball python market is expanding. There are so many new morphs that there is not enough demand to hold high prices. When pies came out they were hot because they were one of only a few ball morphs that existed. Now we have morph upon morph upon morph and there isn't enought money to buy all of them. So the price is going to drop a little to meet the demand. I think what we will see in the future is all morphs stabilizing at around 1-5k each unlike the huge price tags we see now. I personally think there will be demands for all morphs for years to come and a chance for breeders to make good money, but I think the overall prices for ball morphs are going to be lower than what we have seen in the past. Hope I made sense to everyone.

My take on this is that not all morphs will stabalize at 1-5 k in the future. My take is every year there will be some new morph or designer morph come out that demands a high price. Then there will always be the morphs that not many people have that will demand a high price. The reason why pastels and spiders are dropping is because they are the nicest morph in the 500$ to 5000$ price range unless you want to buy hets so ovbiously most people would rather the morph than the het (not me personally). So if you are a begginer getting into breeding and you dont have that much cash to spend you will get a pastel or a spider and the prices have to drop to maintain the market for them so there is one or two morphs that most peop[le in the buisness can afford. As, well everyone getting into breeding will have to start with these or hets and most people want the visual morph so the number of pastels keeps increasing.

I got a phone call in August from someone claiming to have three hundred "pastel eggs". If he had 300 in August, how many had he already hatched? This is one guy. How many were made? A large number produced requires a large number of buyers. To get more buyers the price simply MUST go south.

Think of it as a pyramid. Blue eyed whites are the peak if the pyramid. Not many animals, not many buyers required, large price. Middle of the pyramid might be Clowns. Reasonable number produced, more buyers required, price is lower. Pastels? They are the foundation of the pyramid. Many produced, many buyers required, lowest price required.

Simple??

All the best.
-----
AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

There is one word to describe what alot of people here are moaning about... its called competition. If we were talking about cars, or gasoline, everyone would be all for it, but because some people are heavilly invested in balls, and the Pastel is part of that pie, they dont like to see thier profits drop because someone else out there, newbie or not, is selling for less. Pastels in my opinion are beautiful snakes, and many think like that also. they are also easy to produce and you get them in a first breeding unline other morphs, therefor a great choice for a guy that wants to start breeding. Nobody here was complaining when all these "newbies" were buying thier pastels from them for premium prices a year or so ago, but now some newbies as they are called are breeding and producing, and are now competion for some of the guys that have been doing it a few years..... its all in the fun of competition... just think, you were a newbie once and well.... i bet the people you purchased from were saying the same things about your prices. you dont have to drop your prices to compete... let your animals do the talking. if they are better looking and a little higher priced, I would like to think someone would purchase from you because of the quality, not because you are offering them a 2 for one deal..... but het, thats just my take.. I may be WAY off..

Sean

And since the pastel is the "piece of the pie" that most all people start with, these newbies' "investments" are all tied to the value of the pastel.

I wonder if the reason the pastel's price is moaned about is b/c it's the single morph that most people (newbies) are depending on to recoup their costs. Once you get the other morphs, you're diversified.
Jeremy
-----
Isn't it cooler that serpent's don't walk anymore?
(Genesis 3:14)