Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Freddie is just fine and next week He'll be put onto sand! ooo no! it'll kill him is probly what you guys think well just because you put your leo on anyhing other than paper towel means it will die!! right? well you all very wrong!!!!!! he'll live
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call me leo boy

Well, wasn't that the most cocky answer coming from a NEWBIE I have ever heard. Do what you think is right, but don't mouth off and pretend to be a smart ass, which you are not...really, wasn't it you who was coming on here only a few weeks ago asking the most basic and common sense questions? And now you think you know it all? Seriously, you are in for a rude awakening if you keep that attitude...after this thread, I will NOT answer your posts even if your leo is dying and you need my help. Sorry, a 12 year old who has had a leo for less than a month will not know as much as someone who is older. This is not about the sand issue, this is about your own arrogance...really, to BE a smart ass, you have to know what you are talking about which you obviously don't. I pity your leo since you won't take good advice for his sake.

Cleo
1:1 leos (4 eggs cooking)

:

That is a very RUDE post coming from someone who just got his leo for a couple of weeks. Many of us here have kept leos for many years and are giving you advises from their own experiences. We have been nothing but nice and helpful to make your first reptile experience a joyful one. If you don't want to listen to our advices that is your right but don't come off with your I-know-it-all attitude with us. I agree with Cleo, I will no longer waste my time asnwering any of your posts.

Seriously if your ganna come here acting like that just leave. Ive really had it with you since the begining when you asked the same questions over and over and by calling you questions simple cleo was being nice they were really stupid after the 3rd time you asked the same question. I dont recall anyone saying a leo will die from being put on sand they have just said theres a risk they dont feel is worth taking so think a little more beore you speak. Thats all i have to say....
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-Bryan

I totaly agree w/ wut u sed. I can't stand arrogant people, lol.
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Just Another Herp Crazy Person

0.2.0 Leopard Geckos - Lea, Cleo [4 eggs cooking so could be 0.2.4]
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon - Loki/Chimera or Persephone (still trying to figure out what sex it is first i thought it was a female, now it looks like a male?!?)
0.0.1 Fire Skink - Blaze

E-mail Me

I totally agree! I asked for help with my geckos that have medabolic bone desease and I also asked for help in respect to the little leo I just got at a recent show. There is so much help here and sometimes there are alot of answers that you may not agree with but face it I asked the questions so I would expect to get responses from both points of view. Do not come back here bashing those who have helped you when you asked for it to begin with!

You should be ashamed with yourself. If it were not for these forums I would be sertanly lost for sure!
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n/p

The reason leopard geckos should be kept on sand is because of calcium requirements. In their native area, one of the ways they keep their calcium levels up is by eating substrate. However, regular sand will do nothing but plug up their systems.

There is something you can get call Calci-sand (I think that's how the name is spelled). It is "sand" granuals made with high levels of calcium. If you really want to put your leo on sand, I would recommend trying that. I use Lizard Litter myself and since I provide gobs of calcium, I have never once seen them try to eat substrate. If you make sure "fred" always has access to a dish of calcium and is given dusted food, "he" will probably never get the urge to eat the sand.

Lastly, we didn't try to help you just so you can come back with insulting comments...The people here deserve more than that and at this point, an apology is in order.

Ok look.. YOu came on her asking questions about leos and MANY people went out of their way to try to help you. I can even recall one that went and called to find a breeder that was near you. How can you critize us for trying to help you. I hope you realized what you just did. Because maybe it may not be sand or anything like that, with your leo later in life. But things come up in a leos life that you will not understand, and heck more than likely your vet wont know either. As of personal experince I have had more help here EVER than I have had at my vets. By you acting like a 12 year old you just lost a lot of respect and help in the future for your leo. And I feel sorry for your leo (not you) because of this.
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1 male HY(Winky), 1 Tang female(Sunshine), and 1 Tremper Albino female(Serenity)

np
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-Bryan

First: In their native area, leopard geckos live on rocks and compacted dirt, in fact they avoid the sandy areas.

Second: Calci-Sand does NOT provide any benefit over normal sand! It doesn't disolve in water or acid to a noticeable degree in a period of 24 hours. It can and will cause impaction, period.

Third: Lizard Litter, correct me if I'm wrong, is crushed walnut shells. Walnut shells when exposed to moisture EXPAND. Besides impaction issues you also have to consider the sharp edges of walnut shells.

If you want a naturalistic setup I suggest slate. Personally I use brown paper towel for my cages that are on display and any paper towel I get my hands on for the animals in rack systems.

>>The reason leopard geckos should be kept on sand is because of calcium requirements. In their native area, one of the ways they keep their calcium levels up is by eating substrate. However, regular sand will do nothing but plug up their systems.
>>
>>There is something you can get call Calci-sand (I think that's how the name is spelled). It is "sand" granuals made with high levels of calcium. If you really want to put your leo on sand, I would recommend trying that. I use Lizard Litter myself and since I provide gobs of calcium, I have never once seen them try to eat substrate. If you make sure "fred" always has access to a dish of calcium and is given dusted food, "he" will probably never get the urge to eat the sand.
>>
>>Lastly, we didn't try to help you just so you can come back with insulting comments...The people here deserve more than that and at this point, an apology is in order.
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Steven Beckerman
E2MacPets

> First: In their native area, leopard geckos live on rocks and
> compacted dirt, in fact they avoid the sandy areas.

I didn't say they lived on sand in their natural environment...I said they instinctively ate substrate to keep their calcium levels up. I do a lot of reading and thought that this was an interesting thing for them to do.

> Second: Calci-Sand does NOT provide any benefit over normal
> sand! It doesn't disolve in water or acid to a noticeable
> degree in a period of 24 hours. It can and will cause
> impaction, period.

Ok...I didn't know that. I don't use the stuff myself. I guess the product is highly misleading. I just thought if he had his heart set on sand, this would be the lesser of two evils based on product claims.

> Third: Lizard Litter, correct me if I'm wrong, is crushed
> walnut shells. Walnut shells when exposed to moisture EXPAND.
> Besides impaction issues you also have to consider the sharp
> edges of walnut shells.

Yes, it is walnut shells. It's ground fine enough that it isn't sharp, otherwise I wouldn't use it. But, like I said, I religeously provide calcium/vitamins/minerals and have never seen any of my leos eating it. They seem to really enjoy digging in it and laying in it too. LOL!

> If you want a naturalistic setup I suggest slate.

That does sound beautiful!

Caused a leo I nursed back to health to have internal bleeding.It's previous owner kept it on the lizard litter bedding.
Just a word of warning there.

And I can see where Waxie misunderstood what you said about sand.
'The reason leopard geckos should be kept on sand is because of calcium requirements. In their native area, one of the ways they keep their calcium levels up is by eating substrate. However, regular sand will do nothing but plug up their systems'

It's a little misleading there. You said they should be kept on sand because of Calcium requirements.And following that sentence up with the next makes it seem like you're saying there is sand in the natural enviornment, but not 'regular sand'.

Just trying to clear some things up =3

Ah...I see what you mean. I should have started a new sentence with that line to disconnect it. Oops! Thanks for pointing that out.

About my walnut bedding...I ran out and need new substrate. I sat, right on the floor in PetCo (LOL!), reading all the bags. They had regular fine sand, Calci-sand and Viti-sand, as well as two different kinds of Lizard Litter; walnut and wood chips. There was no slate of any kind, nor anything similar. The choices are rather limited.

What I like best about the walnut bedding is clean up...I spoon up their droppings, as well as all neighboring litter and toss it. The rest stays clean and I am very picky about my reptiles having waste-free houses.

The leos love to dig in the walnut and seem very happy on it. I've never seen them eat it, or take an interest in eating it. In fact, I've seen the oposite happen, where if one of the leos gets a bite of lizard with the insect, they tend to spit it out.

Now, back to the sand...I did read the article someone posted a link for where the girl had done experiments on it. However, I'm a bit puzzled. I read the packages; table of contents and more. If the stuff is made out of calcium bicarbonate, the same thing that we provide as a calcium supplement, why is one digestable and the other not?? It couldn't just be the size of the pieces....

I read an article about the digestibility of calcium sand written by Michelle M. Hewitt. In the article she said she first mixed it with water and none of it broke down. She then said she mixed it with acid and only some of it broke down. However these tests were done on sands called Fre-Flow and Cal-Strate. Fre-Flow is designed for cattle and cattle have much larger digestive systems to break down the calcium. Cal-Strate is a reptile bedding but I have never heard of it. I have never read of tests on the more common varieties of calcium sand (calci-sand and vita-sand). No opinions here just information I'd love to hear your thoughts.

That's the same article I just read...I thought the whole experiment was a fantastic idea. I've never heard of those other brands either.

But, this is why I'm so confused. I was told that the Calci-sand was no better than regular sand but when I read the back of the packages, I saw that the Calci-sand was the exact thing we give our leos. We dust our bugs with it and put it in little dishes for them to eat...so now, the question is, how digestible is that?

I agree i came on this forum knowing very little and the people here have helpped me out alot whenever i had a question it was answered and even when I ask dumb questions they where always there to answer them. My advice to you is to think before you say something because i think that you hurt alot of the people who tried to help you by saying that smart comment.

I totally agree with what everyone is saying about you back-stabbing them for all their genorousity. If I were you I would keep those VERY rude personal complaints to yourself, because even if you really get fed up about the forever growing arguement on which substrate is better(I vote Paper Towels!), "If you don't have something nice to say.. don't say anything at all". Bottom line is... YOU HAD IT COMING.

-Britney

I must say that was extremyly rude and arrogent of you, esspecially since you havent had your first leo for very long. Most of us are experence keepers and have had our leos for years. About the sand, there is very very good reason to avoide it. Some leos do fine but why take the risk. I my self have a leo become very impacted a bit after I had got him and was also very new to reptiles then. I can tell you it wasnt very pleasent trying to treat him and get him better, thankfully he did survive but many leos do not. Its a very dangerous situation and can easly lead to the death of the leos. After Orion got impacted I only use paper towels with all my leos. Its must safer, easy to clean, and much cheaper. In the end Paper towels and slate/tiles are the best way to go.

NP

Wow!!!! You have had the Gecko for two weeks and you were able to figure out the BIG GECKO SECRET!!!!!!! Geckos are just fine on sand. Forget about what all of these people that have had geckos for years say. Actually there is another form where they go and joke about all of the bad avice that they give and give out the real advice. You are a very smart kid! Please tell us more on how we should be taking care of our geckos. Should we be cutting off the heads of the mealworms so they don't eat through our geckos?
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You can never have just one gecko. Actually it is almost impossible to have two

I'm sorry, I thought you were 12! From the maturity you're showing the age is probably around 4. That's OK, I don't care for you after the first rude post of yours, but I feel so bad for poor Fred . What did Fred ever do to you? It is really sad that he landed in your hands when he had a chance to be bought by someone that could take care of him without harming him.
It is very sad for us to see people who are knowingly doing something to their gecko that will hurt them. Why are you being so rude to us, for god's sake, you were even offered a free leppard gecko by someone! You ask questions and most of the time you ignore the suggestions, why do you come here???
I know someone who had a gecko die from sand and another get really bad on the brink of death. Impaction is a very uncomfortable and painful condition for leos even if they don't die!
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~Andrea

2.8.1 Leopard geckos
0.0.1 Bearded dragon
0.0.2 Viper geckos
0.1.0 Rescued anole
2 dogs
hamsters

Check out my new website: DreamGecko.com

ourwvhor
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"i have a mortal wound!"
"where? where does it hurt?"
"oh, pretty much around the big bloody spot"
"come inside. ill get the neosporin. da na na na na - NEO! ba na na na na na na - SPORIN! blee nee nee......."

haven't you.. if you are not mature enough to take knowledgeable peoples advice then you are not mature enough to have a leopard gecko or any pet for that matter.. and secondly paper towels and sand aren't you only option as many people have said.. you can put him on tile or a kitchen towel or repticarpet.. why does it matter if he is on paper towels its not like his cage is being viewed by thousands of people.. you should be ashamed of yourself putting you own wishes first instead of what is good for your leo.. i am twice your age and have owned reptiles for the past ten years and have never come across such selfishness.. if he gets sick.. don't come crying here when he does ..sometimes something like that teaches kids like you a lesson.. people here have been nothing but generous and kind to you... sigh... if you don't respect peoples opinions and kindess don't post here again..

I hope you were just joking especially after the butt chewing that your mother got on here and gave everybody about you being a sensitve child and would be hurt by the harsh facts of reality that everyone is giving you. Geesh, sounds like maybe your whole family is messed up.
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Even if your on the right track you will get run over if you just sit there
22 leos,1.1 redtail boas,1.1 rainbow boas,1.1 cornsnakes, 1.0 tokay gecko,1.0 veiled cham, 5 dogs and a cat. Oh, can't forget Tater my parrolet.

Did I miss something. What happend with his mom?
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1 male HY(Winky), 1 Tang female(Sunshine), and 1 Tremper Albino female(Serenity)