Reptile & Amphibian Forums

SAZ seems to be one of the most prevelant and popular of the Gaigeae lines out there. Do these all originate from just a few animals at the SAZ ? Too bad there arernt any imported as Im sure the various lines could use an infusion of genetic diversity.

Changing gears I really like Micropholis as well and I hope they start coming down to a more common man price like the Black Milks did eventually. Iv always heard Micro's were the biggest of the Triangulum's but I think Scott said below that Abnorma were. What is the average size of a Micropholis ? Anybody know how big the breeders are that are now producing babies here in the US.

Keith
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The breeder stock female Micros are approaching 6 feet and expected to continue growing last I heard. We really have no idea just how large they can become in 10 years because there are no 10 year olds here yet. Colors and pattern look nice in the pics of the adults I've seen and a couple of mine are becoming brighter as they put on some size.

New Gaigae blood is available from Costa Rica BTW.
Jeff

Well geez Jeff thats a bit tantalizing isnt it lol ??? Any pics of your babies? Funny you mention that the females are big Ive seen myself and heard that female Black Milks can get bigger than the males. Possibly sexually dimorphic in regards to size ??? I had a adult pair of Gaigeae back in the late 90's and the female was a solid 6' and the male a good foot shorter. Maybe its just a result of people feeding there females well to prime them for breeding ??? I got the Blacks as adults so I dont know the feeding regamines.
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I was under the impression that the one pictured by the guy from Germany was the Costa Rican stock to which you referred. Jeff have you seen the stock you mentioned ?

Keith
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Hi Keith,

the stock Jeff mentioned is different from the stock I posted the pics from.

My animals are F1 animals from three babies a german guy collected during a trip to Costa Rica. I have spoken to this guy several times and he told me exactly how and where he found those three WC gaigae.

On the pic below is one of my males with an aberrant striped coloration.

Grettings from "the German guy" Gerrit

Lampropeltis - Koenigsnattern

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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

Hi again,

here is the same male at the age of 1 year. He is now around 35 to 40 inches and still has not changed much in his coloration.

I do have 2.2 from this locality in Costa Rica and all key out as gaigae by counting the scales and red body rings. The parents are around 5 - 6 ft. and dark but you still can see the triads on their bodys.

I still don't know, why the snout coloration is as close to the southern ssp. Micropholis and andesiana have the same snout tipping, also the Panama gaigae. But they are from a more northern population than the SA Zoo stock, which shows a snout band at the babys on most individuals.

Greetings,
Gerrit

Lampropeltis - Koenigsnattern

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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

Hey Gerrit aka German Guy

lol sorry about that couldnt remember your name when I was typing. I did look at your site and you have some spectacular animals. I really like your Andeans. I dont doubt your Gaigeae are what they are supposed to be. Maybe many of us just have the mindset of what Black Milks should look like and if they dont fit in that "box" then they must be something different. Thanks for posting the info.

Keith
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Nathan Wells ought to be able to tell us all about the micropholis he has been working with the past few years.

Keith, while Jonathan Campbell found abnorma in the central montane highlands of Guatemala that measured 6'8", that recently posted pic of the 7' gaigeae would beat that, of course. I guess it would be hard to say with any certainty which subspecies has attained the largest maximum size. But certainly there are five (hondurensis, abnorma, gaigeae, micropholis, and andesiana) that would rival one another.

Scott

Hey guys,
Sorry for the late response. As many of you may already know, I have been fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to work with a fantastic colony of micropholis. My good friend and buisness partner, David Doherty, was able to get the animals into the country direct from Bill Lamar himself, and we have been successful in producing offspring over the last two years.
The adults are truly stunning with the 4 females being just under 50 inches and the males being slightly smaller, measuring 43 to 46 inches. Since a few of you have inquired about photographs, I have provided a few showing the adults and some hatchlings from this year. The animal pictured here is of an adult female.
Nathan Wells

Pictured here is two or three neonates just hours after they hatched. This clutch was one out of four that hatched this year.
Nathan Wells

Here is a nice picture from September of this year.
Nathan Wells

......of course you already know that, don't you?

Scott

Thanks my friend. I'm surprised that you haven't shown off your awesome pair. The most recent pictures of them from outside are really nice. They are becoming pretty impressive looking!
Nathan

nm
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......maybe one or both of these guys can post some. I know that Shannon has pics on his website, High Sierra Reptiles.

Scott

I was looking at my old Kingsnake book by Markel and noticed the pics of Micropholis on there are by S. Ballard. Is that you by chance ? Thats a beautiful snake. Was it an adult ?

Keith
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Keith, yes those were my photos. That was an adult male that originally was collected by Bill Lamar as a 10" hatchling in August 1980 near Cali, Colombia. In hindsight, it was probably an intergrade between andesiana X micropholis. It had around 25 red body rings, but 21 dorsal scale rows, so probably a naturally occuring intergrade between the two. It was very different looking than other South American triangulum.

The snake had a lot of history with it. Lamar had it, sent it to Ernie Wagner, then I got it from Ernie in 1981. I eventually sent it back to Lamar, who had expressed a desire in getting in back.

Scott

Hey Keith,
Thanks for the e-mail the other night. I figured I would just get back with you on this forum. I posted a few pictures in the thread above showing an adult and a few hatchlings. Shannon has two babies on his website that I produced last year. I'm surprised that Scott hasn't posted pictures of his yearlings. His pair are turning out into some exceptional looking animals.
Kind regards,
Nathan

WOW Spectacular looking animals. I love the black tipping in the white rings. Thanks for sharing Nathan !

Keith
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Thanks for the compliments Keith. Keep me in mind when you decide to get a few...
Take care,
Nathan