Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I find it funny that every time I look at the ball python forums they are always posting about their market is going to crash. Is it just me or are the ball breeders a different kind of breed? I know a lot of us boa breeders also breed balls but why is this topic so big. You don't see many of us post about the boa market.

(1) What's the difference between "us" and "them"?
(2) Why is it we don't complain that much about the Boa Market?

It seems to me, "Us" boa breeders take a more laid back approach. What do you guys/gals think?

James W. Arnold

Someone once addressed this question with the answer;
About 10-15 advanced years of emotional maturity.
With all things considered Hmmmmmmm ?

LOL!

M/

My snakes arent the most expensive in the world but id never leave them to breed $50,000 or even $100,000 ball pythons. I had bought a few and i sold em again in less than 2 months. My heart is just with my boas. My 1st snake was a ball python that i had for a year until the day i 1st saw a boa constrictor . It was a not so pretty one but i was hooked !! At that time it was the coolest snake id ever seen. Koky
-----
THERES NO BEAUTY LIKE THE BEAUTY OF A TRUE REDTAIL

Ive noticed the same thing. I think its people who paid(or invested for that matter) 60k or 70k for an animal being paranoid. Also theres alot more people in the ball "game" than in boas. They are most likely thinking once all the people that can afford to buy a 60 thousand dollar animal get one,what next? Rich

I think one thing to consider is that balls breed sooner than boas. Therefore a new morph in the ball world will spread alot faster then one in the boa world.

I spend a good amount of time reading the ball and boa forums. The reason there are so many people talking about the "market" and all that cr4p is because there are SOOO many guys/girls on there who are looking for a "get rich quick". I think that most people there have lost sight of the beauty of the animals they are working with. I have 1.1 balls and 1.0 colombian rt. Sure I cant wait for my bps to breed, but NOT ONE of them will be sold. I have snakes because I love them, im not trying to make any money. I wish there were more people who shared my opinion. I think whoever said it was right, everyone who "invested" is worried about not seeing it back, I find that kinda funny. Because I thought people kept snakes because they liked them, imagine that! If you spend a few minutes reading the latest posts in the bp forum you will see that all of these "get rich quickers" are now attacking the "big boys"! Claiming it is all their fault that the "little guys" cant make any money. I hope this whole "market crash" will eliminate the people just trying to make money and leave it to the people who love the animals and breed to see what else they can get, and to expand what they have personally. I dont think that there should be no small breeders, I simply feel that the people who are breeding should be people who first and foremost enjoy and respect these amazing animals.
Sorry for the long post/rant
Thanks

I do plan on breeding and do plan on selling animals but do not even begin to insinuate that because people like myself wish to make money off what they love that they love their animals less then you.

I honestly think intelligence has a lot to do with it, lol.

But really, I was talking with Ralph Davis about this today, he is a great guy to talk to.
Anyway, the people over on the "other side" who are affraid of the market crashing are not evolveing with a constantly changeing market. They expect the same Albinos, Pastels, Piebalds, and Spiders to be high-dollar for years. Those that are affraid simply do not practice good business.

I think some of the Ball Python morphs are so radical, King Pins, Spinners, Coral Bee, Banana Clown, Pastel Clown, LAP, Lesser Woma, Super Phantom, etc. However, the Boa crowd overall has more senseable people (no get rich quick schemes). The Big breeders of the Ball world, and those who work with Boas and Balls seem to share more in common with Boa people than many think. Really it is the crazy people expecting to get quick returns on their money with no regard to the animals that are giving the ball community its less than stellar reputation.

This is all just my observation and is not ment to insult anyone. I have a few Ball Pythons too, lol.

Ball and boa people ARE two different breeds.. The ball python crowd is so CUT THROAT, every person for themselves.. Metaphorically it really is like a SINKING SHIP.. With the rate and age male ball pythons reproduce and the protocol of holding back ALL females, it is a recipe for disaster.. The people are just NERVOUS, and SHOULD be.. It's really like comparing orange to apples though, if boas reproduced like ball pythons, I think this market would be pretty similar.. This community is much more laid back, and has a sense of unity.. After visiting the ball python forums for the last few months, I don't think I'll be venturing into that "Game", not because there isn't a possibility of making money, because in reality there's a TON to be made... I just don't like the "Crowd".. I do LOVE some of those ball python morphs and I think I'll buy a few just to make some of the designers I want for my collection. (Orange Ghost Spider) FAVORITE! Maybe I can make some super ball morphs instead and have a different group of people to have fun with?? Are blood people mean??lol
-----
Joe Lydon

Blood people are like boa people IMO though. Anyway anyone who pays 23k for a snake has got to be off there rocker.... So much other things could be done with that money that its not even funny. These little guys (little breeders) think they can recoup money after breeding a pair of snakes they paid a total of 9k for when most likely its NOT going to happen when you look at the bills for these animals and your home. And then what happens if you make about half (if your lucky) of the money you put in for the snakes,raising,advertising? Then you my friend just wasted thousands of dollars on a lost cause. I love ball pythons however and that won't stop me from going to the forums. Heck they made a new forum just for buisiness ball pythoners. Either way the market (if it is a market) is kind of sad, money,greed,fame,respect,paranoia,bills,debt,bankrupt... Thats the ball world all sumed up in my view kind of like some drug world.

Why wanting to make money off of your animals is a bad thing though,Im not sticking up for the ball people, but I wanna make money off of my boas. I really want a t pos colombian and the only way I'll be able to obtain one at the price they go for is to breed my animals and sell off the offspring. I think its just part of the hobby. I feel if I make some money than good,cause its just going right back into my collection. I would love for all of my animals to have the best cageing,food,ect.. but it all cost alot of money,money alot of people dont have just laying around. so in a way, they (the boas) breed to better their own lives. Im not saying my boas are not properly cared for, but they dont have all of the top of the line stuff like 500.00 dollar cages each. Rich

to make money off of snakes.. If you can make money at what you LOVE doing, whether it be a hobby, part time or full time, POWER TO YA!! The only thing you have to keep an eye on is how you go about doing it.. Personally, I don't think I'll ever go large scale with ball pythons, but who knows.. As long as animals aren't being neglected in the process, buy/breed/sell and make a profit to enlarge your collection or put money in the bank..
-----
Joe Lydon

LOL @ The BP Cartel'
HEADLINE NEWS @ 6:00

Up-State woman charged with Human Trafficing/Child Endangerment,offered undercover Boa Breeder Officer ******** her newborn son in trade for alledged High End Ball Python Morph.Officials are still puzzled as to the alledged dollar figure given when questioning her motives.

Euthanasia pending

>Heck they made a new forum just for buisiness ball pythoners. Either way the market (if it is a market) is kind of sad, money,greed,fame,respect,paranoia,bills,debt,bankrupt... Thats the ball world all sumed up in my view kind of like some drug world.

Ball Pythons:
More people that care about money more than snakes.
Boas:
More people that care about snakes than money.
I will elaborate later but I am late and have to go out.Vinnie

The Ball python world seems to be all about the $$$, where it seems that the boas breeders are about producing The best, most beautiful, Unique...Its seems to be more about the animal than really how much its worth. Not to bash ball breeders, I used to keep ball pythons, and just couldn't put up with the scene, so I sold all my balls and just do boas now. Its like, with boas, Its a bonus if its a het, but in the ball world you have to have written documentation from the breeder. Ya get what I mean....I posted pics of my balls, and I got e-mails asking is it a female, how much does she weigh, is she for sale...I got burned out quick with balls...BOAS ARE BETTER....FOR SURE.... I have noticed that boas keepers and breeders are generally more laid back and easier to work with...

Thats just my opinion...don't get me wrong Ball Pythons are beautiful and amazing, but Boas are truely better...LOL
-----
"Life is a Safari"

Qoute
"Thats just my opinion...don't get me wrong Ball Pythons are beautiful and amazing, but Boas are truely better...LOL"

HEY!!! Don't judge the snake by it's owner!!lol Boas do have a sense of mystery to them compared to ball pythons, but baby BP's are so damn CUTE!! I like both species equally, there are boas I don't have an interest in, same with ball pythons. I'm a variety kind of guy though, I'm into all kinds of reptiles and mammals and couldn't limit myself to just one category.. I think HANDS DOWN as far as wild type snakes go, Arboreal Boids are the coolest creation which is why I've got a pair sitting in my living room.. Take care
-----
Joe Lydon

.
-----
Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

...

I havent been in a while and all I can say is wow... Lets just all keep are fingers crossed that this malarkey dont spill into the boa scene! I couldnt belive the amount of disrespect and name calling ect... whats scary is the people conducting this kind of stuff will probably come into the boa community when they get fed up with it all. Before you know it we'll have people over here calling out "THE BIG BOYS" and crying about prices and market value and what not. I have to admit I look up to some of the big boa breeders and I hope that they dont come out trash talking people like over there. Boas and this forum is where I come to get away from stress and the grind of everyday life and I would hate to see over here what I see over there. I think its up to all of us to keep that kind of stuff out of here. just my 2 cents Rich

Kind of like the difference between unix and windows admins, open source and microsoft developers. They look at the world a different way. Some of them are just as smart, not as many, but some; they just look at the world differently. Seems to be a younger crowd as well.

Al

Here's one....

Im sorry, I wasnt trying to offend anyone, what I was trying to say in my post is basically what others summed up in simpler less confusing or misleading ways. I dont think it is wrong to make money, or anything like that. I was trying to say that, to me, it seems that there are a LOT of people jumping feet first into the "ball game" for the money and only for the money. Way more people than the "boa game" sees.
I was NOT trying to say that people who sell their snakes do not love them. Im sorry if it was taken that way

Just wondering.... If a lady would give up her son for a high end top dollar morph then she is out of her damn mind. This is a drug world (BP world) but ixnay on the white powder and replace it with ball pythons. Soon people will start smoking cigars & walking around with guns boasting about there 40K morph... Like I said, Money,Greed,Fame,Respect-most of the time leads to-Debt,bankruptcy,suicide.

Hopefully it hasnt come to such an extreme as I described,but to think the BP game is in anyway different to "ANY OTHER" Human endevor to advance ones self either socially,physically,emotionally and even financialy,then who is kidding Who ? What then actually becomes "extreme" ?Do you think people carrying guns and toteing around 40K morph snakes isnt already common and accepted practice ?Surely you dont believe that "all" morph ventures get their start from 40 hr weekly paychecks ? Granted there are some that "actually" happen via this route. BUT COME ON NOW !!!!The Herp Hobby wasnt founded on moral behavior and principles.Without people like Crutchfield or Mr Joe-Flylow there wouldnt be a Herp Hobby.Not to excuse the Hobbys past or condone illegal buisness practices,but where can one allow belief(s) that anything has changed since the begining ?
Nothing has changed "Morally/Ethically",regretfully its evolving/evolved into yet another man made "Delusional Deity of Delirium"Granted there are "MANY" Reputable Players with in the hobby,even the $Morph$ side LOL!!but the percentage(s) of integrity generally decreases as the monitary values increase.
Just because someone is haveing success as a player in the game doesnt automatically entitle them to whats commonly and freely extended their direction by todays standards of commerce.If your projects were established with "dope" money,then you have that end reward to look forward to.If your projects were started by honorable means(loose term) then you have the opportunity to either succeed or fail just like any prior personal ventures of the same intent/nature.
Just my view from the cheap seats.........
(Feel free to make additions,spellcheck,grammer etc,etc just dont deny what is truth)

M/

LoL meta interesting post... All I said is that I don't want to be kidnapped one day for my Top $ ball and beaten with a bat then extorted, do you think these things DON't happen with money and animals specifically ball pythons? Maybe not YET but you forget that NERD had a few snakes stolen that were worth thousands, women giving up babies, it's the new epidemic. Yeah I was trying to be funny about the drug lord/BP lord but anything's possible!

Yeah I was bored so .......

LOL!

M/

>>LoL meta interesting post... All I said is that I don't want to be kidnapped one day for my Top $ ball and beaten with a bat then extorted, do you think these things DON't happen with money and animals specifically ball pythons? Maybe not YET but you forget that NERD had a few snakes stolen that were worth thousands, women giving up babies, it's the new epidemic. Yeah I was trying to be funny about the drug lord/BP lord but anything's possible!