Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ive read alot about Females becoming egg-bound and dieing after breeding. Supposedly if a female is not bred during their first period of receptivity, they will become eggbound if bred later on? What is the truth about this? and when are females usualy first receptive? I have a male female pair both just under 6months old and the female has not yet shown any of the so called receptive colors. _josh topp

Ah the old wives' tale rears up again! It is not true that females will become eggbound if not bred or if not bred during their first receptive cycle. This probably got started when keepers had unbred females who became gravid, but the signs were not understood and they weren't given a proper laying site. They ended up dying because they couldn't lay. There are unbred females who never develop infertile clutches, though most do. Obviously the eggs won't be fertile, but she will need to lay them just the same. I think their age at maturity varies a bit and has a lot to do with nutrition, general health, and heredity. Just because a female may be capable of breeding before she's one year old doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it. Egg production takes a lot out of the female, and most are not totally developed until about a year old. I'd wait. The females will also tell you when they are receptive. If they are put with a male they will either show receptive coloration or they won't.

I wish this incorrect information would die once and for all. I heard this story before my first veiled female reached maturity many years ago and chose not to believe it. I didn't breed that first female until she was over a year old so that I was sure she was done growing her own bones before putting egglaying demands on her. She didn't die and went on to lay quite a few clutches of fertile eggs.

I have done the same ever since....and in my experience, I have never had a female veiled die eggbound because she was not mated. I have one female right now that I hatched amd that I didn't breed until she was almost three years old. She never laid an infertile clutch during that time and she has laid several fertile clutches when she is mated during her lifetime with me. All of the fertile eggs hatched and almost all of her babies survived. She's 7 1/2 now and still quite well.

In my experience and from what I have read and heard, eggbinding is most often the result of poor husbandry (such as improper temperatures and lighting, supplementation imbalances (of minerals and vitamins), improper gutloading of insects,etc.), lack of an appropriate/acceptable egglaying site, being watched while the hole is being dug, misformed/fused eggs, internal problems/deformities of the internal egg formation system, etc.

You asked "when are females usualy first receptive?"...at around 6 months of age most of mine become receptive...but it varies quite a bit and is somewhat dependent on the husbandry and feeding schedule IMHO.

Hope this helps!

Josh,

I think you are relatively new to the forum so may not know Luna's story. I will not tell the whole 2 years worth but in a nutshell:

I got her at 4 months, she got her recpetive colors at around 6 months (I had no intention of breeding b/c she was a bit small and that was an agreement b/t me and breeder), laid her first clutch in May (since she had not been mated it was difficult to gauge a "date" when she might lay) of 42 eggs.

She laid another of nearly the same size in July, again in December and again in April or May. So 4 in a 12 month span. She was never eggbound and always waited until the last minute to go to her laying tub (never did the pre-digging as some apparently do.

Luna died on July 2nd from a blood vessel (or other) rupture and bled internally. When my vet did the necropsy he found that she had egg follicles once again.

I tell you this to make the point that I think if any unbred female cham was going to become eggbound Luna was a prime candidate. The rupture was likely do to the constant egg development (she barely laid and began developing again) and pressure, she also had calcium fluctuations which were difficult to manage. The irony is, that had I bred her she may have gotten her hormones balanced and I had decided to find a male for her to avoid the next December clutch (and just not keep the eggs), but she died and therefore I never had the opportunity to try this.

So not mating your girl until she is a year or so should pose no problems provided an appropriate laying tub is available at the earliest signs, as Carlton and kinyonga said and not to breed TOO early since she will not be fully developed in her growth.

Hope this helps ease your mind a bit.

lele
& Luna - in spirit

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Part of the problem may be in the fact that so many books say exactly that, "a female not bred within her first 10-15 day receptive period will surely die eggbound once bred." I own two books that mention this is exact thing. Of course people are going to beleive it when its in print.

As to believing what I read in books on caring for exotics, these days I look for the publication date of the book. Anything older than a couple of years means I start looking for newer information, and now with the internet I have a lot more resources to draw on. Usually, you can weed out the incorrect or more bizarre information if it doesn't fit with the general opinion that is repeated over and over. I don't just look at one or two references, I read everything I can possibly find.

From the minute I saw it, Just looked so crazy the way she hung there asleep, NEAT !

Pretty girl she IS
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

her other eye was looking at Lita (feline) on the ground but it was funny how that one was closed. It is my favorite of all her pics. I have it as my wallpaper on my desktop so she greets me every morning and says good night every evening. One of these days I'll get a nice little photo album of her online - I have SO many pics to sort thru!
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha