Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi there. Im from British Columbia and I have found 4 long toed salamanders. We put them in a large fish tank. What do I put in the tank? (Rocks, little water, mud, grass????) I have been putting spiders and bugs in there. Is that what I feed them? Also is it safe to put a very small frog in the tank? thanks a bunch

You need a mostly aquatic setup with shallow water and a good filter, but not one that is too powerful. gravel is a suitable substrate, but an area of moist soil should also be included for burrowing. Plants are optional, but will certainly improve the look of the setup.

A small frog can live in there, but only a /small/ frog. But it depends on how large the tank is. What size is it?

spiders and insects are what they eat in the wild, but it is not advisable to feed wild-caught prey due to the risk of contamination from pesticides or herbicides. Buy fruit flies and small crickets from the petstore instead.

I have given you this very basic care information, though my final piece of advice is to not keep the salamanders at all. Wild-caught salamanders are very sensitive to environmental conditions and often do not live long in captivity, especially under the care of anyone but an expert. If you must keep the salamanders, do more research in books and online to provide the best possible care for them.

thanks for your reply. I believe it is a 20 gallon tank. I have put mud like stuff in it and made litte caves for them. I found them under my house when my sump pump went and i had to remove insulation from the wall. they were in the dirt under insulation. I will probably release them, once my basement is clean and dry again, but now it is winter and we have snow. Any help for now would be appreciated. We dont have a pet store in town so I will have to figure something out.

I've kept this species, and they're very hardy TERRESTRIAL animals (not aquatic). They appreciate just dirt, some places to hide, and maybe a small water dish.

They make great animals and can survive many years in captivity.

A diet of chopped earthworms, gutloaded crickets, the occasional waxworm, and other soft-bodied stuff is very nutritious and much appreciated by your animals.

I put some non fertilized soil in the tank, a small thing with water in it. A few hiding spots. Now I just have to figure out food for them. We just got a big dump of snow, so that might be hard to find worms. We dont have a pet shop in town. So does anyone else have any ideas??

Oops, you are right, sorry. Long-toed salamanders are primarily terrestrial. They are in the genus Ambystoma, mole salamanders. I must have confused them with long-tailed salamanders or four-toed salamanders, which are semiaquatic lungless salamanders. Or perhaps I just didn't have my facts straight.

Anyhow, the setup you have now with the soil and water dish is better. Just be sure to keep the water clean. Change it out as needed, at least once a week.

Here is what to do on the food issue. It is now definately too late to release them, as they have not been allowed to finish preparing for brumation. So, you must have a bait shop in town... Go there and look for live earthworms. They should be safe, but there are still risks. These should last your sals through the winter. But I also advise you to keep looking around town or even out in the yard for other bugs, to add a little variety to the diet. All earthworms all the time is not particularly healthy for the sals, but its better than nothing. Keep the temps in the tank a bit low, between 50-60 degrees, so that the sals will go into a type of brumation, and will not need to eat as much. Feed one or two earthworms once a week. Chop them up if necessary so they are more easily eaten

I buy all my worms at Wal-mart, as do a lot of people I know. I've never had a problem with them. Earthworms are a proper staple. You can use them all the time. You can also vary the diet with waxworms, but use these only as an occasional treat, as they're pretty high in fat, and gutloaded crickets.

Salamanders do not hibernate, or brumate. They don't NEED to in captivity. They're just fine at room temperature all year long. These guys make great pets.

Once you've taken an animal from the wild and moved it to another location (such as inside your house), You should never re-release it. This is how chytrid has spread. It's bad. Don't do it.

In the wild, they will brumate. If wild caught, especially near winter time, their instincts will make them want to do so in captivity, whether it is cold or not. If it is not cold, they may not brumate, but may be slightly to greatly stressed that they do not need to. It varies between species and even individuals.

About the chytrid fungus, I'm not so sure that it is being spread very often in that manner. As far as I know, there are few reported cases in the U.S. at all. But I suppose an animal would be more likely to catch it from commercially sold soil which has been shipped aroung to who knows where in the world. I still am sure that the probablity of an animal getting it from store-bought soil is extremely low.

However, chytrid fungus is not the only pathogen that can be picked up by an animal in captivity that it would not normally come in contact with in the wild. There are many others. So it is quite risky rereleasing an animal into the wild. But the final decision is up to you.

snip "In the wild, they will brumate. If wild caught, especially near winter time, their instincts will make them want to do so in captivity, whether it is cold or not. If it is not cold, they may not brumate, but may be slightly to greatly stressed that they do not need to. It varies between species and even individuals." end snip

Actually most caudates including this species do not hibernate or even bruminate. They continue to feed and move around just much more slowly so this is not a reason for this species to stop eating.

snip "About the chytrid fungus, I'm not so sure that it is being spread very often in that manner"

One of the major theories for the global spread of chytrid is due to the use of Xenopus as both a lab animal and a pet. It has been theorized and supported to some extent by research data that this is maybe the source of chytrid.

snip "As far as I know, there are few reported cases in the U.S. at all."

Chytrid is wide spread in the USA (and is documented in both caudates and anurans) and has been documented via museum specimens from some declining populations of amphibians since the 1950s. There is a lot of literature documenting this spread, most of it is just not available as free papers over the net so they need to be purchased from places like pubmed.

snip " But I suppose an animal would be more likely to catch it from commercially sold soil which has been shipped aroung to who knows where in the world." endsnip

If the soil has been throughly dried then it is safe to use as chytrid does not tolerate drying or temperatures above 100 F for more than 16 hours.
However the risk of the animal aquiring chytrid in captivity is pretty high as it has been documented in a number of animals that are in captivity as well as a number of distributers. Because of this many states prohibit the capture and rerelease of animals without a rehabbing permit. The current recommendations put forth by a number of organizations is that unless special precautions are taken, no amphibian or reptile that has been kept in captivity be released.

snip "However, chytrid fungus is not the only pathogen that can be picked up by an animal in captivity that it would not normally come in contact with in the wild. There are many others. So it is quite risky rereleasing an animal into the wild. But the final decision is up to you." End snip

True.

Ed

Yes brumation is probably not the right word to use, aestivation may be more appropriate. Though if the climate is warm enough, they may not even have to do this.

About the chytrid, thanks for that info, I did not know most of that. Though I thought it was first documented in wild populations of various species of frogs in Australia. Are you saying that it originated in African clawed frogs? It has spread all over the globe in various ways. But the fungus seems to do best in undisturbed, moist habitat at higher elevations.

Aestivate is not correct either as they do not enter into any form of "sleep" or torpor. The metabolism is temperature related and they simply continue with normal activities but more slowly.

It is currently more lethal at higher altitudes but it has been documented from amphibians in dryer habitats (such as Plethodon neomexicanus) and low elevations (such as some of the tiger salamander populations, leopard frogs and bullfrogs). In the temperate low elevation enviroments there is an increase in mortality in the cooler weather (spring, fall and winter) and a decrease in mortality in the summer although some species are fairly resistant and can act as carriers (such as bullfrogs).

The current data is pointing at Xenopus as the original carrier.
Most of the internet accessiable documentation of it is from Australia but it was also identified early on in Central America and the USA. Since then it has been found pretty much wherever there have been declines in amphibians.

Ed

We are talking about the same thing, apparently we just have different understandings of the definition of the word "aestivate".

And yes chytrid fungus is definately able to survive in dryer, warmer climates at lower elevations, but is most comfortable in the said conditions.
One place I know that it is causing a particular problem is in Mexico, where it is a major factor in the decline of certain species of Phyllomedusinids in relatively remote habitat in the mountains. I would like to know of any other locales or regions where the fungus is a major problem. Do you know of any?

es·ti·vate also aes·ti·vate
( P ) Pronunciation Key (st-vt)
intr.v. es·ti·vat·ed, es·ti·vat·ing, es·ti·vates

1. To spend the summer, as at a special place.
2. Zoology. To pass the summer in a dormant or torpid state.

(www.dictionary.com)

They don't estivate. They don't 'sleep' at all. They just slow down. To estivate implies that they go into a burrow and go to sleep. This simply isn't true.

Chytrid is most reproductive at 23C, and is still productive down to 6C, but is very unproductive above 30C. With this data, one can conclude that it is NOT most comfortable in warm conditions. It recently has been linked to massive boreal toad dieoffs in Rocky Mountain National Park, where it's not warm, wet, or low elevation.

It's also causing problems in the UK, where Bufo catesbeiana is being considered a vector, bringing it into the UK.

It's also caused extinctions in Australia.

Would you like any more localities?

I didn't say it prefers warm climates, but you seem to be implying that I did. In fact I think I specifically said that it grows best in cooler climates, and if I didn't then someone else did and I agreed with them.

Wow!! Thanks for all the help you guys are giving me. I have been able to find a few worms and bugs outside under the snow. I have also put a few flies in the tank. They dont seem to be around anymore. I would love to go to Walmart but we dont have one in town.

This a terrestrial species. Check the link out for marbles, you can pretty much use this as a guideline, though I'd keep them just a tad cooler. Use caudata.org if you need anymore help.

RUSS

http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_opacum.shtml