Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just saw an advertisement in the kingsnake.com classified ads that says a guy in houston caught an albino slowinskii. Does anyone know anything about this. He is selling het. babies. I can't believe that an albino corn type has been caught in the past years. Is this a phoney ad.

He bred a kisatchi with a regular amel corn.
Ad

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-audri
Webpage/Pics

Corn x emory = Kisatchie
Kisatchie with albino is Creamsircle in my eys.

>>Corn x emory = Kisatchie
>>Kisatchie with albino is Creamsircle in my eys.

If I am not mistaken Kisatchie is now Slowinski but whichever you call it. It has nothing to do with creamsicle.
Creamsicle is result of amel corn/emory
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Jimmy (draybar)

If you mean the ad "'03 Het. Amel. Texas Kisatchie Cornsnakes," then he means that they are hybrids and NOT an albino Kisatchie cornsnake. It puzzled me for a second, too, but that is the result of breeding a WC Grimes county, Texas, Kisatchie cornsnake (Elaphe guttata slowenskii) to an amel cornsnake (Elaphe guttata guttata). There is NO SUCH THING as an albino Kisatchie cornsnake, but there are hybrids out there that are albino with 50% or 25% Kisatchie cornsnake in them. Yuck in my opinion.....lol.

The confusing problem with that ad is that Jim accidently makes it sound like he has Texas locality animals. "'03 Het. Amel. Texas Kisatchie PHASE Cornsnakes" would probably been a clearer way to write it, I guess. The albino can NOT be a Texas locality animal, so these offspring aren't a Texas snake. They may end up looking a little like a Texas snake in coloration and pattern, but that is as far as it goes. Still, these are NOT Kisatchie cornsnakes no matter how they look since they are NOT Elaphe guttata slowenskii, but are just hybrids, so don't let that confuse you. As to how they look, I expect they'll look very similar to a wildcaught Kisatchie cornsnake except for minor difference most people don't know to definitively look for since they've never seen a pure Kisatchie cornsnake. The other F1 hybrids I've seen have all been more "Kisatchie-like" than cornsnake-like."

As far as the other post goes, "Corn x emory = Kisatchie" is NOT completely true. A Kisatchie cornsnake is a NORMALLY occuring phase in the wild in central LA and east Texas. If youi breed an emoryi to a guttata, you do NOT get a slowenskii, or Kisatchie cornsnake. Kisatchie cornsnakes are probably their own subspecies (and not a species as Buurbrink 2002) implies but they are their own POPULATION at the very least resulting, assumably, from secondary intergredation of the parent species (Elaphe emoryi and Elaphe guttata). Kisatchie corns are now genetically isolated for the most part and have went their own way, or at least started going their own way, on the evolutionary scale. Soooo, calling the hybrids a "creamsicle" crosss is NOT perfectly accurate, but sounds like the best term to use in my eyes. It's close, anyway. If tyhose would have been labelled a creamsicle cross, this confusion wouldn't have happened.

I guess "Kisatchie" is going to end up being just like "Okeetee" and actually mean nothing. Pretty soon "Kisatchie" won't be a localityu or even a species, but the term for ALL dark cornsnakes, huh?

Attached is a photo of a Grimes County Female. More Texas Kisatchie cornsnake photos will follow.
KJ

I'm afraid you're probably right about the name Kisatchie going the way of the Okeetee, it's too bad. I see a lot of people using it to describe corn X emoryi.

At least it has it's own designation (slowinski), maybe that will help to keep it's place. I'm sure there are quite a few good breeders that have true Kisatchie stock that will help keep it straight.

Clint Boyer

I consider you to be the leading authority regarding Kisatchies in this branch of the industry tree. I agree with your comments and thanks for detailing that for us.

I too saw that advertisement and I presumed he meant he was hybridizing them, but the verbiage could have led some to believe he had a new wild caught albino. Personally I think we have a latent opportunity to preserve a somewhat virgin species here. Creamsicles have been produced for two decades so it's a little late to go back on those. I realize the temptation is too great to keep the Kisatchies pure in this "new morph" hungry industry. Personally, I plan to keep the Kisatchies pure here at South Mountain.

PS. I also got a kick out of the price. Dilute the genes and charge more. I know Jim and he's a great guy. I don't want anyone to get the idea he's a jerk. He is simply offering what he thinks will be a new spin on this morph.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET

Thanks Clint, Carol, and Don!

>>Personally, I plan to keep the Kisatchies pure here at South Mountain.

You know how much I love to hear that!

>>PS. I also got a kick out of the price. Dilute the genes and charge more. I know Jim and he's a great guy. I don't want anyone to get the idea he's a jerk. He is simply offering what he thinks will be a new spin on this morph.

I agree on all of those counts, and I like Jim, too. I haven't known him very long, but we have many of the same interests in the same herps! I didn't even pay THAT much attention to the price. Y'all know how much I think hybrids are worth even if they are pretty ones...lol. I still love those NORMAL Kisatchie corns, though!

Sorry for the delay. I had to wait until kingsnake.com approved my purchasing of additional photo gallery space....lol.

>>Sorry for the delay. I had to wait until kingsnake.com approved my purchasing of additional photo gallery space....lol.

>>>>Sorry for the delay. I had to wait until kingsnake.com approved my purchasing of additional photo gallery space....lol.
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>>>>>>Sorry for the delay. I had to wait until kingsnake.com approved my purchasing of additional photo gallery space....lol.
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>>>>>>>>Sorry for the delay. I had to wait until kingsnake.com approved my purchasing of additional photo gallery space....lol.
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