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Wierd very wierd. Can anyone tell me how this happened?
'04f western hog, died 11/16/05,ate 11/11/05, copulation seen on 11/08-11/10. She was doing great about 13" feeding every week without missing a beat. The male in the tank is a '03 he is doing fine eats, every other week.
I checked on my snake when I came home and they were both fine. When I came home from dinner, the '04f had a mouth full of shavings (pine) and looked as if she was trying to wipe them off on her self. I grabbed her out and she was weak. I then rinsed out the shavings and put her in a feeding deli cup. She just went down hill, looked like she want to regurge but couldn't and died shortly after.
I did notice during copulation that the bit her to hold her in place. (not sure if this lead to the death)
Any comments?
Thanks,
Nick

possible envenomation?????

I know its not a western but i did have a huge tricolour miss a mouse and bite herself, there was a lot of venom on her back....she died next day!
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www.hognose.co.uk

I have had lots of western hogs as well as tri-color hogs that are very aggressive feeders that bite there selves lots of times and some times even hold on and chew on there selves for a while and never have I noticed any problems at all. also I have never herd of any info that proves that tri-color hogs even have venom like a western has. show it to me, please ! I think it was most likely a bad mouse or maybe the mouse teeth or claws may have cut the inside of the snake some how to cause a problem on the inside were it could not be seen. or maybe even the mouse was to big and caused a block to the snakes air way and the snake could not get the mouse to come back up. just my 2 cents, but venom, I dont think so.. got any more info? thanks.

JIM

i have to agree with jim on this one,sounds unlikely. jeff

I actually photographed the venom on her back!
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www.hognose.co.uk

if you look just past the 2 droplets you can see the bite.

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www.hognose.co.uk

Those droplets came out of her moth when she bit herself. She also missed a mouse once and got the laying box and left the same amount on there. I have found them to be very aggressive when gravid. I have also seen the reults of a bite recently, the guys whole hanf swelled and had a huge blood clot under hisa skin for weeks.
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www.hognose.co.uk

It cant have been a dodgy mouse that killed her as it was fresh kill.Claw possibly but off....nope.It could be a coincident, ill grant you but seems a bit unlikely.

My wife once put a western into the wrong draw in a rack and put it in with a royal, the next day i found the royal with a bite on the head and the poor thing looked like it had been internally liquidised! it was like a bag of skin filled with fluid.

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www.hognose.co.uk

How are you sure that it is venom on her back and not just wetness from her mouth? and the guy you say got bite from one, did it say the bite was from a tri-hog? I did hear about a few dummies that have let a western hog bite them to see what it would do but not about a tri-hog. if I ever have one die I will do some looking into it and see if I find any fangs or venom glands. thanks. for the input, any more info would be great as well. thanks

JIM

The bite was a friend who had just bought a pair of yearlings from me, he fed the female a fuzzy and as he did someone distracted him and it grabbed his finger and chewed, to be fair it wasnt on there a long time but his whole hand and forearm swelled up, the effects lasted for 2 days and went away leaving no lasting problems. I had a similar reaction to a fwc bite.
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www.hognose.co.uk

Thanks for the many comments guys.
Here is what I did yesterday.
I preformed an autopsy, cut the snake open down the middle of the belly, nothing unusual just some fatty deposits inside the wall. The stomach was empty, no parasites. There was a piece of shaving that was about 2mm and really fresh. The heart did look a little big (1" for a foot long snake I think, and I did notice that the snake was bulged right there when it was dying.So maybe heart probs? all of the excitement of mating might have lead to heart failure? Maybe...
Nick