Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well here is a shot at answering some questions. Much of this information is from research, and some from my experience.

To start, we have Nicaraguan Anerys (Type II), Colombian Anerys (Type I), Longicauda Anerys, possible Venezuelan Anerys, maybe Belize or Cay Caulker anerys, there are Sonoran Anerys, Ecuadorian Anerys, and the Leticia Anerys (many are actually Colombians missrepresented for money).

Sonorans, Longicauda, Colombian, Leticia, and Nicaraguan have all been proven recessive.

The Nicaraguan Type II breedings in captivity are limited, but here is the history. Ron St. Pierre brought in the first Blood from El Salvador (I know it's not Nicaraguan), while working on the project he had Anerys born. People didn't think much of them, and passed on the opportunity (Amanda Burke said they passed). When Ron became allergic to rats he sold the Blood project to Tracy Barker (and the Motleys to Jeremy Stone). Tracy bred Blood X Blood and got a new morph (PEWTER), a Type II Anerythristic Blood.
Jeremy Stone bred an imported Type II Anerythristic female (for those of you who have not seen it, it is black, and possibly axanthic as well) to a Kahl Albino. The last few years he has bred the DH X Dh trying to produce Blizzards. I own a Type II Anery 66% het Albino from one of these litters, and I did have a Colombian as well. I will say that the Type II is completely different in color and darkens with age (this bloodline also doesn't get any brown and might be axanthic as stated before).
Ralph Davis this year bred Type II X Type II, and got a full litter of Type II. His (from pictures seen) have a little brown, but have black eyes.
Dan Sutherland bred Type II X Type II, and got a litter of Type II. Dan's animals look much like Jeremy's and may be axanthic.
Then our Locale friend Gus bred a Hypo Nic X normal Nic, and produced the first Nicaraguan Ghosts along side nice Type IIs. I believe Tom Burke has these now.

Colombian Anerys I believe were first bred by Ron St. Pierre, although this may be inaccurate. They have proven through production of the Snow to not be axanthic, and in every form of Colombian Anery they gain yellow with age. Some lines more, some less.

Longicauda Anerys popped out of various captive lines of pure Longicauda and have proven themselves recessive.

Sonoran Anerys seem to have high contrast, but are very black like Type IIs.

Ecuadorian Anerys I have not heard or read anything about asside from pictures.

Until EACH is bred to each other, OR we breed them all to Albinos and produce various Snows, we will NOT know exactly what is going on with each.
I personally think we should NOT do this. If each is kept in its own locale, then we don't have a problem and there is no need to cross locale. Yes a morph side to the purity issue, lol.
Because Nicarguan Type II and Colombian Type I are popular, and the two locales have mutations of interest to many, these may be bred together. However, before we do this, and truly create problems, we should wait for a Blizzard top answer the questions. If there is a true White boa, and the Type II is also Axanthic we will know it is different from the Type I.

By breeding Type I X Type II, if they are not compatible we will have a litter of DH Type I and II which will cause REAL problems. If the breeder sells them, and someone breeds them, what do they have? Also, who would want anything resulting from the breeding if they are not compatible, it will only confuse the genes in their existing project.

Hi Chriss

Thanx for sharing with these informations. Its very good to know things like that. Anerythristic boas are very nice, especially those that dont get yellow with age. We also have a new anery blood from the columbian. Next year we will try to put it with albno. Maybe this will be the key to blizzard. Well see. The animals are around 1 year old and they are not yellow yet. I hope it will stay like that. We will post pictures later...

Take care
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Gabor Kaminski

But,it's all kind of irrelavent to me on a personal level...I don't think the "snow" that everyone's looking for will be produced by any of those combinations,(just my opinion of course,not trying to cause a "flap".)...personally,I've never liked the idea of inventing names for known,simple trait combinations,like sunglow,snow,ghost,blizzard,etc...especially prior to seeing the effect of the combination. I've always thought it best to just use a "slash",ie;albino/anery.,albino/salmon,etc,etc...currently the ghost isn't very "ghostly",the snow isn't really very "snowy",but such is the nature of the marketing game I suppose?...I think the true white boa will either be leucistic,or come from the "black boa"/albino combination,(depending on how the black boa developes as it ages??? it'll definately come much closer than anything currently being tried.)I also think any "problems" that you refered to are strictly human/mental,and tied directly to the two dimentional way in which many people try to justify what they do? nature does not isolate its experimental candidates in "sweater boxes",WE do...
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EMAIL

do you have pics.

If you are talking about the super motleys, those are not black. And definitely not a solid color. If you are talking about a different boa, I would be very interested in seeing pics, or a link to where it is at.

Thanks
Bob

I don't have any pics I can post. if that's not black then I've gone blind,it's much closer than anything I've ever seen?(it is presumed to be the "super" form of the Central American Motley he's working with.)
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EMAIL

I agree they are close, but if you look at the lateral color and patterns it is white/gray. They have a dark dorsal surface, but definitely a long way from pure black.

Bob

Something closer Bob???
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EMAIL

that the blizzard will not be solid white. Maybe when its a baby but later it will be getting yellow. We will just loose the pattern... patternles snow.
Het. albino super motleys have a big chance to produce LUCY imo. Think about blocking the black in the super. It must be white...
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Gabor Kaminski

Super motleys are not black. An albino super motley will be a "mottled" orange and white laterally, with more white dorsally. Mark my words the super motley is not the answer to a pure white boa. In order for us to have a pure white boa it is going to take a leucistic. It will not be made with dual recessive/dom. genes until there is an axanthic boa produced. It is fun to guess what multiple genes will make them look like, and I am no way a "professional" geneticist or boa keeper for that matter. Time will eventually tell.

Super motleys are not the answer to the all white boa.

Bob

but i think a super motley can be a key to LUCY. I havnt seems many photos of adults speciment but the babys are very very dark. If they dont develop any other color it can work. There is also a possibility just like you said that the albino super motley will be orange. Thats true. I just hope not.
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Gabor Kaminski

Close is not what we are after. To make a pure white boa close will not work. At this point in time there is not anything that will make a pure white snow, IMO.

You are correct that this may be a step in the right direction. And at this point in time it would appear that super motley is the closest we have.

Bob

I think the whitest boa will be the Albino CA Super Motley as well. Since the Super CA is Black it would only make sense that the albino form would be white, however this might not end up true. If it is truly black (as in absence of all other color) then it would work. If it is Black in the sence of masking underlying colors, the albino may still have xanthin or erythin pigments.

I agree with you on names for designer morphs, those which have been created like snow, ghost, blizzard, and sunglow came from the long present form of the mutation in Corn Snakes. Things that are exclusive to Boas like Arabeque Albinos, are called just that and nothing more.
If the Type II Anerythristic that Jeremy started the Blizzard project with turns out to be Axanthic, then the Albino form of the mutation would have no red (erythin), yellow (xanthin), or black (melanin) leaveing a white boa. It will be interesting no matter what the outcome.

*LOL*,I don't mean to sound overly sarcastic Chris,I really mean it only as good natured conversation between like-minded boa-nuts...but,yeah,I'm VERY familiar with where the names of various morphs originated,long before I came full circle,back to boas,I was dabbling with colubrid mutations,(late 80's) some of my good friends & aquaintances were the original pioneers of reptile genetics,way back when your parents were probably in high school & I was looking for answers in the bottom of beer bottles & elswhere! (Ernie Wagner,Bob Applegate,Bill & Kathy Love,Rich & Connie Zuckowski,Don Hamper,Gary Sipperly,to name a few.) Which is when I first saw the error in "inventing" names before the results were on the ground...kinda tough trying to explain to a new customer why "snow" means "yellow" *lol* I do agree with you about white snakes though,many are barking up the wrong tree in my opinion,(FWIW)
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EMAIL

explaining how a ghost was actually gray is kinda tough. I remember a mother asking a breeder why the snake they got (ghost corn) wasn't white. The mother bought it based on name for her son, when the son actually wanted a Blizzard, white.

Then you have those who ask, isn't a Hypo het Albino a DH Sunglow, and then if Hypo is not recessive why are they DH. Leaving for the explaination of alleles and heterozygous animals, and the creation of names not based on genetics but by appearance. Adds to the confusion.

One problem with many Corn Snake, Ball Python, and Boa morphs is that they undergo an ontogenetic (sp?) color change. Morphs get named based on the appearance of the first example, a WC adult, or baby. When it is proved genetic the baby might look nothing like the adult, or the adult may look like a normal.
I think BPs are becoming the worst with designer names. First you have a single mutation that has some rediculous name, then you breed it to another and make somthing new. Kevin has how many types of Bees? (just joking Kev) Add to it a new morph every month and there is enough to give anyone a headache. Don't worry BP people the market won't crash, there are over 100 morphs existing with countless combinations left.

Enough for now,

Wasn't that story from a letter in Reptiles Magazine? I know I've read it before, just asking as a memory check....I'm pretty old you know-LOL, take care

Paul

FYI: Gus didn't produce the first Ghost Nic. Ben Siegel imported 2 farmed animals ( one I think 4-5 years ago, and the other I think 3 ). Bryant King proved one animal out to be a ghost ( it was a male I believe ), and the other animal is somewhere out their in captivity. Bryant sold his Boa collection, but that ghost he had is out their somewhere

Bryant did prove his Ghost to be hypomelanistic when he bred it to a normal Nicaraguan, but the Type II part needed to be proof. Do not quote me on this, but I am almost certain Gus' Hypo that he bred came from offsping of that Ghost. While there were a few Nicaraguan Ghosts floating around before Gus' litter, they were farmed imports.
Gus was the first person to produce neonatal Ghosts in the United States through his own captive breeding program (and it was an accident).