Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw this pic on the internet. The hand apparently belongs to a young girl. The snake is a pet. Granted a baby Sidewinder is not "deadly" but I imagine a bite is possible and could cause more than a minor “annoyance” for the one bitten.

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Randy Hallman

and could really make for an unpleasant day or more for the person holding it. If it's a little girl, her parents should be shot.

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I don't know that her parents ought to be shot...spayed & neutered comes to mind, though..with anesthetic an option.

~~Greg~~

Ahhh, yep, it looks like the hand of a young girl. Glad to see you posting.
Shane
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Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

Very pretty SW.

Boy..these little guys do pack a serious punch! One of the most painful RS bites around. It would be a shame to see that cute little hand very swollen and Black & Blue because of a stupid act.

Al
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"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

....Randy, send me the link (azdiadophis@aol.com / /johngunn@mail.maricopa.gov) & Ill see if there isnt intervention available...this is a medical emergency waiting to happen & unfortunately....govt intervention is appropriate & needs to happen very soon.
I can hardly believe adults would allow a child to do this....how very stupid & sickening!

heres the best way to handle a snattlerake...

I don't think that it's a little girls hand unless she works at a construction company. The hand in the picture has calluses which indicates that whoever is holding the snake most likely works as a skilled laborer and is probably an adult. Adult or not, only an idiot would hold a venomous snake like that.

You may be right but the hand does not look that calloused to me. The girl was 10 to 12 maybe and quite “outdoorsy.” The pic came from the girls personal web page that was part of the family web site. It had a caption about her dad letting her hold the snake. I assumed it was her hand based solely on that. Adult, teen or child I felt the behavior was reckless at best. I posted the pic just so people could see the activity and the negative responses to it. Perhaps the post will make someone else think twice before doing it themselves. It is my understanding this snake was released and the careless behavior ceased and corrected.
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Randy Hallman

Observation (s): The hand appears well calloused along the palm, just below the first knuckle of the pinkie, and would tell me this is a hand that has seen some work.

A neonate winder in the palm of my hand would not be completely out of scale with that picture (depending upon angle) and I have big hands.

While it would be a tough shot to make as it is posed in the hand, that little snake is very capable of delivering a deep tissue bite (for its size)and injecting a toxic tea.

It is most definitely not a "mild" venom.

Lateralis

Just my .02 here, but I have a 6year old who's hands look like mine did when I worked construction. He has calluses on top of calluses, and I can assure you that they ARE NOT from working. LOL You might be suprised what monkey bars and jungle gyms will do to kids hands.( and arms and legs also) Depending how much time they spend on them.
Like I said just my 2 cents worth.

Mick

True, I just cant imagine someone letting a child hold a winder like that so I question that part. Whomever it was/is should be keel hauled and scuttled. That is the dumbest thing Ive seen posted on this forum yet. No wonder keeping venomous animals is being banned. I can certainly see why they are passing the laws, its just too bad the laws (as usual) will have a negative affect on those who are qualified to keep venomous. The question of whether "this is a good idea" was pretty stupid, as whomever staged that shot is guilty of child endangerment. Another point, agencies monitor these pages very closely and Im sure that picture was passed around.
"a picture is worth a thousand words" comes to mind, a thousand words worth of legislation about why venomous reptile keeping should be banned. That is what could be generated by this particular thread, though I hope not. Too bad KS wont yank it off the forum.

I hope nobody else posts pics like that, its not very smart.

This thread was started in part out of my belief that the hobby needs to do much more in policing itself. I hoped to show a dangerous irresponsible activity and the negative feedback to it in order to educate “newbies”. Unfortunately (though understandably) most responses were simply too emotional, misdirected and lacking in the needed academics. I also failed to provide information on the status of the situation in my initial post.

An example: This is a very irresponsible activity. While an actual bite does not always occur this or any other venomous snake is very capable of inflicting a serious wound. Almost all venomous snake bites are associated with attempts to handle or harm the snake. Experienced keepers using safe techniques have even been bitten. A neonate Sidewinder may be one of the less threatening of N American Pit Vipers in terms of mortality but it still has the potential to inflict a painful bite associated with traumatic swelling, sickness, tissue damage, and other stress and damage to the body. Permanent damage is also a potential. It would not be an unusual event for this snake, held in this manner, to inflict a bite. The risk and severity of a bite completely precludes any possible reason to hold a venomous snake, especially in an unrestrained manner.

I agree that activities such as this have a damaging effect to the herp community in general. Poaching (illegal collection, selling and other such activities) is also a significant problem. I do not believe this post will have any influence on legislation. Medical statistics on snake bites are readily accessible and much more convincing as are other government statistics such as those from police and animal control agencies. I believe that the continued illumination of these activities within our community has a fare greater benefit than any negative feedback. We should not sweep these issues under the rug. I believe the primary reason laws are increasingly more restrictive is due to illegal collecting and commercial activity coupled with the failure of the reptile community to adequately police itself or lobby for its interests. One of the arguments for enacting strict legislation is the extreme difficulty in enforcing more liberal laws. One of the reasons laws make it to the books is the failure to adequately lobby against the need for them. How many legislators are amateur herpetologists? We need to stop misplacing the blame for our legal woes.
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Randy Hallman

and I want to thank everyone for their input and participation.

Thank You
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Randy Hallman

...very good work there out of Monsignour Lateralis....to elicit your ADMISSION you had & have an agenda...to use whatever means including what you admit was a grotesque photo....to "fix" those who behave different than you...Tell be do you sit in the #1 lane @ the speed limit & smugly watch them telescope & pile up behind you w/ a smug sense of right ...what a work....

There is no agenda here, hidden or otherwise. There is certainly nothing sinister or inappropriate. What else would the purpose of such a post be? You assume only what you want to assume. I'll just consider the source.

Take care and best wishes to you Mr. Gunn
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Randy Hallman

...ok,not surrounded.but it feels that way when you see stuff like that.