Reptile & Amphibian Forums

It seems to me that the other forums are just sort of wasting away. Seldom visited, seldom posted, as many people just post what they have on the general forum. What do you think?

Al

-----
"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

I visit the elapid and rear-fang forums pretty often. Sometimes I even visit the venomoid forum just to see if any new wars have been started. The rear-fang forum is pretty active, but the elapid forum is usually pretty dead. I chock it up to the fact that these are very specialized forums, and people are sometimes afraid to post questions or comments there that they could otherwise post in the main forum and get a bigger audience.

By the way, is that a Daboia of some sort in that picture? Nice shot, whatever it is!
-----
Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

n/p

Yes, she's a new addition to my collection, so right now she's the moldel of the month.....lol

Just to show I'm not totally stuck on her here's another shot from this morning.

CB05 B. cornuta

-----
"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

Chance:

I had to take a second look at the Berg's Adder since you asked if it was a Daboia. I could see where you could draw that conclusion, since it's head in not typical of the Bitis group, it even has a hint of "Lancehead" but no Pit. Daboia would have those big'ole nasty nostril opening, that reminds me of a Gorillas...lol

She has way cool venom that acts on the nerve ending of the 3rd, 4th & 6th Cranial nerves specifically rendering your eyes, smell & taste useless for some time.

Al

-----
"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

Al,

Not to be picky, but CN III, IV, and VI actually control the muscles of your eye, eyelids and pupils. So your vision would still actually be intact, but it would be difficult to move your eyes, see through the semiclosed eyelids or react to light. CN I is your sense of smell and CN II is your actual vision (optic nerve). Taste from the front 2/3s of your tongue is done by VII and the back 2/3s by IX.

So I guess my question is, does the venom take out CN I, II and VII or CN III, IV and VI or both?

Jason

Jason:

I must admit I did not go to my Neuroantatomy textbook and figure out which did what. I do know from case reports those are the senses that are effected and they specified those nerves. Eyes that can't focus, fixed & dilated Pupils, last but not least eyelid that won't open do render them useless as I said.

Contrary to report there are documented effect on respiration and the ability to swallow. One patient had to be intubated for a while but this quickly passed.

Al
-----
"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

Al,

It was not my intent to call you out or anything and I apologize if it came out that way. I was just trying to make some sense of what you said because I found it very interesting. It sounds like what you are saying is that the venom of atropos seems to affect most of the cranial nerves to some effect. I looked into my small library and although a few years old, Minton's "Venom Diseases" has pretty much the same to say on the subject.

"Venom of the berg adder, a small South African snake specifically affects some of the cranial nerves producing a rapid loss of taste, smell and balance. There is marked ptosis and impairment of the extraocular movements; the pupils are dilated and do not react to light or accomodation; and the corneal and gag reflexes are diminished or lost. Generalized muscle weaknes is not marked. The venom produces local pain and swelling, but clotting perimeters are unaffected. Cranial nerve functions may require 5 - 14 days to retur to normal."

Add the possibility of some respiration problems and I definitely would say you have a nice little neurological beastie there!

When you first said "no affective A/V available" (see I do read the other forums ) I thought, "Man I don't know if I have the balls to keep a snake without any A/V" but it sounds like although a bite would not be a fun experience, it probably would not be the end of you either.

Cool little snake man and thanks for sharing it with us!

Jason

No worries Jason....

I could have been more complete in my statment about the effects. After a long day of work I'm not in the mood for lengthy posts.

It is a very strange little beasty but I don't think it takes "Balls" to keep these. I would say it takes "Balls" to keep Proatheris superciliaris. Again no A/V and it's venom causes many clots, some large, creating wide spread infarcts of all of the bodies organs. A real dooms day venom. At least with Atropos you will get your senses back more or less.

Al

-----
"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

Well, very cool, nonetheless. But hey, don't knock Daboia too much, I happen to like them! hah Sounds like those snakes have an interesting venom. Not something I'd want to find out about first hand. Speaking of interesting venom, I finally got myself some more Dispholidus, 0.0.3 juveniles. Now I just have to get them eating and I'll be all set. But that's the easy part right? lol
-----
Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

Al,
Since I have just one sidewinder I look at that sub forum. I also check out the vipers now and then. Ron
-----
The Crawl Space

I visit the Gila forum the most....
-----
C.E.Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

H.s.suspectum /cinctum
KSB Normals -Albino Het/snow &Anerys
Rubber boas
Candoia Paulsoni
BCL's
BCI's
Leopard Gecko's
Pacman Frog's

Hi Al, I check the sub forums about once a month unlike this one where I'm on every day.

John
-----
"Its no help to hide behind the statement that snake bite accidents are a rarity and that the average Dr seldom or never will treat one. For the bitten patient, it is a matter of life or death, and the rarity of the event is of no interest to him."

Okay..now that I have a few reply, I will add my thought.

If I have the time I quickly go through the General, Croat, Viper, and Elapid forums. I will generally post to the family forum that I'm addressing, mostly when I post pictures. I check the RF forum less frequently, since I have only a slight interest in them.

I guess my point is I like those special forums and would like to see them used more often. So check them as often as you can.

Al
-----
"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

I typically check all of them daily, but don't really have much to add soo...

Jason

...ditto...

Subforums, at first, seemed like a great idea but they seldom get looked at. So, I am all in favor of just having ONE venomous forum and a separate forum for gila monster/beaded lizard afficianados. Just my .02.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>It seems to me that the other forums are just sort of wasting away. Seldom visited, seldom posted, as many people just post what they have on the general forum. What do you think?
>>
>>Al
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----
>>"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."
>>
>>Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I agree with Rob except I think that the RF forum has proven active enough to deserve it's own forum too.

On a side note, who would have thought that the Indigo Forum (my main stomping ground) would become the most active forum on the site.

Doug T

>>Subforums, at first, seemed like a great idea but they seldom get looked at. So, I am all in favor of just having ONE venomous forum and a separate forum for gila monster/beaded lizard afficianados. Just my .02.
>>
>>Rob Carmichael, Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center
>>Lake Forest, IL
>>
>>
>>>>It seems to me that the other forums are just sort of wasting away. Seldom visited, seldom posted, as many people just post what they have on the general forum. What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>Al
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."
>>>>
>>>>Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05
>>-----
>>Rob Carmichael, Curator
>>The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
>>Lake Forest, IL

Best shots in a long time! Nice new snake too

I'd say that I have less and less time to visit the sub forums, but still visit them fairly regularly. I wouldn't mind seeing it reduced to the main forum, rear-fanged, and lizards.

Is the indigo forum really getting that big? I attend regularly too, but like the venomous forum, I don't have these, and thus have little to contribute.

Ian

Thanks Ian...

Have not had much time for photography and these were "Rush shots" too. I'm off till next wek so I will spend time with my snakes and get some better ones.

Al
-----
"Snakes in Peru are not there for decoration, they really bite people."

Professor David Warrell, Omaha 10/21/05

Sir;
I try to, as best able as I can with my limited knowledge of 'hots', to post most press items here to the 'general' Venomous forum.
If the item is snake-species specific, I also post it to the relevent 'specialist' hot forum. My major problem is that sometimes I don't know always know what venomous snake goes into what sub-speciality (Gila postings are pretty easy for even a newt-guy to figure out), so my default is posting on the 'general' venom forum.
This forum is also my version of 'Venomous News' ... there are a lot of items that I'll post here that I don't post in the more general kingsnake.com Herp News listing.
Basically, I try to get all 'venomous' press posted here, with stories collateral-posted to specialist forums and Law-CITIES as appropriate given my limited knowledge of your specialist discipline.
I hope and trust that you'll pardon the redundancy of my posting to multiple forums.
respects
Wes