Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If you have no clue where it came from?

because there is almost no real difference between the two externally. The coloration of the two is nearly identical, however sometimes you can tell by the color of the eyes. But this is not a 100% way to accurately ID between the two.
The Northern has dark eyes, and sometimes they will be yellowish brown. The Southern has a dark orange-red iris. But like I said this is not always true, as some individuals may have darker than normal eye coloration.
The only way to tell the two apart is the subtle difference in the hemipenes of the male. If you have a female, genetic testing is the only way to be certain. Now if you caught this animal where there are only Southerns or Northerns, then you should be able to figure out which one it is.
However, if this snake came from a natural intergradation zone, then it is highly possible that you have an intergrade of the two!!
Where did the snake come from??
Brian Baker
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

So I would assume southern, I was just curious if there's an easy way to tell. Thanks for the info.

Or so I have heard...
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DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

>>Or so I have heard...
>>-----
in size. No way you could take an adult southern and an adult northern and tell the two apart by size only. In a wild caught individual especially. You have no idea the age of the snake to start with, so there would be no way to judge the size by age. The coloration is also too close. Just too much variability in the colors of the two ssp. You could put both in a container together, and could not tell the difference, unless the irises were the "traditional" color. The ONLY way to really tell between the two is the hemipenes of the male.
Brian

>>DAVE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>1.0 Western green toad
>>1.1 green treefrogs
>>1.0 Florida blue garter snake
>>1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
>>1.0 American bullfrog
>>0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
>>0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
>>1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
>>0.1 Dubia day gecko
>>1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
>>0.1 rough green snakes
>>1.1 giant African black millipedes
>>1.0 Okeetee corn snake
>>0.1 Albino African clawed frog
>>1.0 Kenyan sand boa
>>0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
>>0.0.1 African bullfrog
>>1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
>>1.1 Western hognose snakes
>>1.2 fire salamanders
>>1.0 scarlet kingsnake
>>0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
>>0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
>>1.0 Florida scarletsnake
>>0.0.1 Florida brown snake
>>0.0.1 Northern brown snake
>>0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
>>0.0.2 Western worm snakes
>>"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."
-----

RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian