Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What vitamin/mineral supplements (brands), if any, do you recommend? I've read that garters fed only on fish can develop a thiamin deficiency due to a enzyme the fish has that breaks down the thiamin before it can be digested.
-----
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python (both gorgeous)
1.1 Ball Python (normals, he said proudly)
1.1 Corn Snake (Okeetee, Amel)
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake (Blairs)
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
0.1 Pueblan Milksnake (Apricot)
1.0 Bullsnake (my garbage disposal snake)
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback (Hondo)
0.1 Spouse (WC)
3.5 hatchling ball pythons minus 0.2
1.1 Checkered garter snakes, one albino, one het

I think that the easiest thing to do is to mix up the meals a bit so that you aren't feeding fish exclusively. I transition my garters over to pinkies as soon as they're big enough and only give fish as a treat.

I've used a variety of techniques to get them onto pinkies. I rubbed pinkies on my pet treefrog to scent my common and one of my western terrestrials over, my other western terrestrial just needed his first couple of pinkies brained. I'm just starting on my checkered.

My checkered isn't into treefrog scented, fish scented or brained. My checkered is used to fishing in his bowl, so what I've been doing is taking a day old pinky that I've frozen, thaw and wash it, and fill the bowl up with just about half an inch of water and add the pinky and a couple of small feeder fish. When the snake goes fishing, he invariably grabs the pinky first. If he drops it, I put it back in the bowl and he'll get it on his next try. Eventually I'm hoping he'll associate the bowl with food and start taking pinkies out of it without the addition of fish.

If you can get day old pinkies, all but the smallest garters can handle them. My little checkered is only about 8" and he's successfully taken two to date.

-Alice

Yep... I feed a diet of diced fish and dug worms for the small ones, and whole fish and nightcrawlers for the adults... and never have a problem.

My "secret" is that thiaminase in fish is broken down by very hot water, and nightcrawlers may have a higher level of vitamin B complexes, than other garter food.

I feed "crappie minnows" from the bait store, that have been frozen, spread out inside a ziplock bag to seperate them. I find that the bait minnows have a stronger scent, and attract picky eaters better than guppies or rosy reds, and they don't have the toxic gold coloration of Japanese "carp" species such as goldfish.

When they are about 80% frozen, I take the bag out, seperate each one again, then return it to the freezer to finish hardening them. The result is a bag of well seperated minnows.

At feeding time, I take out the number of minnows I need, and run my hot water until it is steaming/scalding hot. I fill an old insulated coffee mug with the water and insert the minnows for thawing. I leave them in the scalding water ten to fifteen minutes.

Next, I pour them out, and rinse them with cold water until they are no longer warm, and then feed them.

I have used this routine for about five years, and have never had a snake with thiamine deficiency... and that includes the following list:

0.1 Florida Blue, 38 inches long
1.2 Florida Blue, CB, babies
2.5.20 Eastern (chocolate phase),(the 20 were CB offspring)
0.1 Red-sided, 28 in long

I have sold those snakes since then, due to Ohio licensing of natives, and now am keeping a newly purchased Red-Sided baby (not native to Ohio) that has thus far refused to eat fish. ;-}
-----
KITKAT

1.2 Collared Lizards
1.0 African House Snake
1.0 Red Sided Garter Snake
1.5 Turkish Angora (show) cats

Antioch Turkish Angoras
Kitnhevn Rescue

n/p
-----
1.1 Jungle Carpet Python (both gorgeous)
1.1 Ball Python (normals, he said proudly)
1.1 Corn Snake (Okeetee, Amel)
0.1 Gray band Kingsnake (Blairs)
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
0.1 Pueblan Milksnake (Apricot)
1.0 Bullsnake (my garbage disposal snake)
1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback (Hondo)
0.1 Spouse (WC)
3.5 hatchling ball pythons minus 0.2
1.1 Checkered garter snakes, one albino, one het

The thiamine deficiency cause by feeding fish is not really a deficiency. It is believed that certain fish contain an enzyme called thiaminase. This enzyme prohibits the utilization of thiamine. The condition can not be treated with supplements. Switching a garter to mice is beneficial in removing the risk of thiaminase as well as reducing the exposure to internal pathogens. Mice also provide much higher nutrition than other food items. Amphibian prey should be avoided because of internal parasites. The issue of feeder fish, thiaminase and thiamine deficiency is again, controversial. The only supplement generally recommended for Garter Snakes is calcium. Calcium is recommended by some keepers and breeders for those garters reared on a worm diet. Calcium is generally not considered necessary for those Garters on mice or other vertebrates.
-----
Randy Hallman