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I don't have any ball pythons but I have kept colubrids for a long time. I just started viewing the Ball Python forum and I think alot of the morphs are pretty neat but I read that the Spider mutation has some sort of nervous disorder where they shake their heads continuously. Is that true?

Yup

Mine doesn't.

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g...

Yes they do. Many cases have been reported. Seems most dont like to talk about it because its like bad mouthing a stock. Not all of them have it, but sucks to have one that does.

so do the head wobbles prevent spiders from doing ball python things? like do they kill and eat their pray differently? i have heard about this too, just never got to asking. and another question... are the head wobbles the reason why spiders have dropped in price? i saw a female posted in the classifieds that was for $3,000.. maybe im missing out on something but i thought they go for like 8,000 - 10,000 or somewhere are there.. correct me if im wrong.
Ssamantha
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Under a dead ohio sky,
Eleven has been and will be waiting,
Defending his light,
And wondering...
Where the hell have I been?
Sleeping, lost, and numb.
So glad that I have found you.
I am wide awake and heading home.
TOOL

From what I've read it would be incorrect to say it's continuous and apparently it's also not all spiders or at least not all of their life. Some say it tends to start as they get older and others claim they might even outgrow it. The description also varies from wobbling to spinning to twisting their head and neck upside down and per some posts it might happen when they get excited. Apparently as a group they still eat and breed very well.

I would suspect the public finally finding out about this condition had something to do with the sudden price drop a couple years ago but it likely wasn't the only factor. A dominant type morph that breeds well was bound to come down in price. As the supply increased exponentially there needed to be a lower price to soak them up. It looked to me like for years breeders tried to ignore this and pressure each other into sticking to a higher price. I remember the originator getting flogged on a forum for even a minor decrease in price from one year to the next. Some breeders apparently really thought the price could stay constant. Eventually though too many people where breeding them for the price fixing to hold up and a large correction was needed to get back on the normal track where the price was in balance with the supply. Price fixing just delays the inevitable and results in a large sudden correction that has a larger impact on more and smaller breeders later.

The only time my spider ever shakes it's head is when it reads some of the ridiculous broad based statements that some people make. The question was "I read that the Spider mutation has some sort of nervous disorder where they shake their heads continuously. Is that true?". Mine absolutely doesn't. Therefore the answer is no. Had the question been phrased differently, then the answer may be slightly different. But it wasn't.

>>The only time my spider ever shakes it's head is when it reads some of the ridiculous broad based statements that some people make. The question was "I read that the Spider mutation has some sort of nervous disorder where they shake their heads continuously. Is that true?". Mine absolutely doesn't. Therefore the answer is no. Had the question been phrased differently, then the answer may be slightly different. But it wasn't.

Yep!

She said "No" and he said you meant "Yes"..

Then said a few back tracks on "All" but I think it is just stupid to tell people things that are false like that. I think the Spider mutations has done great things and they are wonderful ball pythons.

Now let's here some whining....

SATAN
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www.newenglandreptile.com

>>>>The only time my spider ever shakes it's head is when it reads some of the ridiculous broad based statements that some people make. The question was "I read that the Spider mutation has some sort of nervous disorder where they shake their heads continuously. Is that true?". Mine absolutely doesn't. Therefore the answer is no. Had the question been phrased differently, then the answer may be slightly different. But it wasn't.
>>
>>Yep!
>>
>>
>>She said "No" and he said you meant "Yes"..
>>
>>Then said a few back tracks on "All" but I think it is just stupid to tell people things that are false like that. I think the Spider mutations has done great things and they are wonderful ball pythons.
>>
>>Now let's here some whining....
>>
>>
>>SATAN
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>>www.newenglandreptile.com

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www.newenglandreptile.com

>>>>>>The only time my spider ever shakes it's head is when it reads some of the ridiculous broad based statements that some people make. The question was "I read that the Spider mutation has some sort of nervous disorder where they shake their heads continuously. Is that true?". Mine absolutely doesn't. Therefore the answer is no. Had the question been phrased differently, then the answer may be slightly different. But it wasn't.
>>>>
>>>>Yep!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>She said "No" and he said you meant "Yes"..
>>>>
>>>>Then said a few back tracks on "All" but I think it is just stupid to tell people things that are false like that. I think the Spider mutations has done great things and they are wonderful ball pythons.
>>>>
>>>>Now let's here some whining....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>SATAN
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>>>>www.newenglandreptile.com
>>
>>
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>>www.newenglandreptile.com
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www.newenglandreptile.com

Have you ever had one that shaked?

>>Have you ever had one that shaked?

Hmmmmm...

As in the whole body shaked? I have head the head loll thing...like it was drunk...

I have had one look up at the sky and keep going into a loop..then disturbed it and it snaps out of it and wants to eat. They can do some weird stuff when they get excited. I don't know if i have seen them shake but maybe shake is not the right term.

Kev@NERD
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www.newenglandreptile.com

Yeehaawww ... a Spider that reads!!!! Hey Gary, how do you teach a snake to read ... same as how you teach an Iguana to use their kitty litter box??

You rule Gary
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g...

.Alan from HCRB center sold me a male this year and it has bitten me...struck at me...taken mice and rat fuzzies from my hand and eaten 1 to 3 times a week and yet.........

it hasn't shown me that it shakes or acts wierd at all.

looks like a ball to me.....

Thanx Alan.........

.....

..........and I cannot wit to make bumblebees........
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NP
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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

heard some do some don't... they are still awsome looking animals, with 'friendly'(in snake terms) dispositions

BRGDS,
A

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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

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g...

"Miss Muffet" is from Steve Roussis an awsome person to deal with... The Best Husband in the world gave her to me for our 19Th anniverary. Can't wait to have bumble bees in the next couple of years!!!
Spiders are one of the most exciting morphs out there...Just ask NERD!

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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

Steve Roussis is an awesome guy ... he's a lot of fun to talk with and he has some awesome animals he is working with.

What an incredible anniversary present ... I agree, you have a super husband and it's wonderful that you feel that way after 19 years

You are going to LOVE your first Bumble ... they are sooo cute

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g...

Thanks for the straightforward answer.

I don't think anyone meant a sweeping statement of ALL of them...... However I for one would like to know more..... Are the problems only associated with certain lines that can be traced back to certain pairings????? Or maybe even certain females?????? Or are they random occurances that can pop up at any time???? What is the current percentage of snakes that have this problem??????? Is there a work around??????? Also Kevin,,,,,,,,, I've heard you say that you are having a similar problems with your Woma line......... Have you found out whats going on yet??????? Just a simple hobbyist with an insatiable curiosity that wants to know whats going on...............

VOT

>>I don't think anyone meant a sweeping statement of ALL of them...... However I for one would like to know more..... Are the problems only associated with certain lines that can be traced back to certain pairings????? Or maybe even certain females?????? Or are they random occurances that can pop up at any time???? What is the current percentage of snakes that have this problem??????? Is there a work around??????? Also Kevin,,,,,,,,, I've heard you say that you are having a similar problems with your Woma line......... Have you found out whats going on yet??????? Just a simple hobbyist with an insatiable curiosity that wants to know whats going on...............
>>
>>VOT

I don't think it has anything to do with any pairing or particular animals. I think it is random. I have no idea of percentages but it is small. I do think spiders act different than other ball pythons with an outgoing personality and a bit of a head wobble. This seems to be just part of their make up. I think what we are talking about is the random one that acts a bit more goofy and lolls its head. I have a few of those but they are great snakes otherwise. I have no idea why they do this and I keep those few for myself. I have never seen them crawl around upside down or any of that kind of stuff. I do have a monster female spider that I call lefty because she tilts her head a bit. I think it may be due to a motor skill anomaly that is different in spiders from other ball pythons. Sharks such as the Grey Tip Reef shark have a very different inner ear from other sharks and this is what allows them to be super mobile and turn on a dime and make sudden direction changes.

Spiders can turn on a dime. Ummm, yeah, something like that!

The Woma balls occasionally show a similar thing but nothing like that of the spiders. I sometimes notice a bit of the head wobble and a quirk here and there. I think they are very similar to the Spider gene with the same possible condition.

I wish I could say more with any accuracy but it is just something that I see but at this point it does not really bother me or worry me. When I first saw it I was a bit confused to say the least. I do not see it as a problem in the line, I think there are many people with spiders and they know spiders are different from their other balls and have a cool personality.

The sweeping statement was do "all".....

and the follow up "Yes".

Peek a CHOO!
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www.newenglandreptile.com

Thanks for the honest followup....... Too bad you didn't see mine.......

VOT

squirtle squirtle

I attended the White Plains Expo on Sunday and witnessed a Spider that was constantly crawling around the display while shaking it's head back and forth rapidly. Is this the typical behavior that is being discussed here? It did appear to have some sort of nervous problem. The neonate animal was for sale along with many other Spiders, Albinoes, Mojaves, Pastels, etc; and the person's table was presentable with no "rough" looking or skinny animals on display.
Just curious.

Lets play guess who was at that table game
Joe compel?

Also, yes that is what some spiders do the head wobbly thing.

one that doesn't have a wobbly head or bad moter skills,but i,ve noticed they glow faster then most balls do
Greg

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

I am giving fair warning. Portions of this thread have been reinstated. It is fully expected that the participants in this thread keep the conversation on track this time around.
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PHWyvern

I have a pair of spiders around 500 grams and have never seen anything like you guys are descibing they act just like the rest of my balls no head wobbels what so ever 100% normal acting all the time .

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Vince Pramuk
Vince Pramuk Reptiles