Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We just took in a bunch of dwarf caimans (palp) and nile crocs (at least I think they are niles) due to a legal action which I can't go into. Please refer to the attached links where pictures can be found. Click the thumbnail to open it to a larger size.

I'm pretty sure the ones labeled specimen 1 and speciment 2 are niles as they key out as near as I can tell. The one labeled specimen number 3 has me confused though. It "looks" like a nile to me (but I'm not an expert at croc identification), but the post-occipitals and the nuchals do not key out to a nile - at least per the CITES key. Plus, there is substantial space between the nuchals and the back scutes.

Anyone have any thoughts?
croc pictures

Specimen 3 (the last three images) doesn't have the bloches on the jaw or on the belly like the others.

Hi Bill,

1 & 2 are Niles.

The third I think may be a hybrid. But honestly for whatever reason those pics are a little blurry on my screen.

Hope it helped confirm your thoughts a little.
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

Thanks Chris,

As for the blur, I was using a 60mm micro lens which has a very shallow depth of field. The "in-focus" area is pretty small, but that's the only lens I had with me at the time.

I was pretty sure 1 and 2 were niles, and I thought about the possibility of a hybrid for 3 too. What would people who are exporting niles be hybridizing them with? and why? There isn't anything similar in thier natural habitat.

Thanks for looking.

Bill

Hi Bill,

>>
>>As for the blur, I was using a 60mm micro lens which has a very shallow depth of field. The "in-focus" area is pretty small, but that's the only lens I had with me at the time.
>>

Given your usual high standards I'll forgive you this time

>>I was pretty sure 1 and 2 were niles, and I thought about the possibility of a hybrid for 3 too. What would people who are exporting niles be hybridizing them with? and why? There isn't anything similar in their natural habitat.
>>

I wouldn't be so sure they where exported. There is alot of crossing that has occurred in captive populations, intentional and not. I'm not even sure how many Niles have been brought in over the last year or so. Although I guess it would be easy enough to figure out by checking the trade stats.

Anyone willing?
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

Tommy Crutchfield produced a number of Cuban x Niles years ago.

Do you know if there are crocs produced domestically for the pet trade?

As far as Crutchfield is concerned, that must have been some time ago, before his "Figi" problems? Did anyone take his stock over?

Bill

Bill,

His stock is currently on display at Gatorland's Jungle Crocs of the World, with the remainder at a private facility.
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Israel Dupont
Winter Haven, FL

>>Do you know if there are crocs produced domestically for the pet trade?
>>

Oh Yes. Not many per year but they are being produced.
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

...Bill, I have a Nile x Morelet's which looks like this monster from above, but the bottom jaw is quite different.

Also, per the CITES key, mine keys to Nile by the Nuchals but caudals key to Morelet's.

Hope this helps. My website has some pics in the collection section if you want to compare them to your adoptee.

Matt
www.matabuey.com

A croc that gets a large as a Nile (or larger with hybrid vigor) and with the attitude and vertical jumping ability of a Cuban!

Thanks Matt, I'll check out your site.