Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK, since posting that initial post there have been many uninformed and immature posts, calling myself and others rude names, and basically missing the point.

I cannot reiterate enough, that I have no hatred fro America. Most people outside of America disagreed with the war in Iraq, but again, that doesn't mean they hate America. Just because democracy was pretty much ignored in the UK, does not mean that the majority of people felt any differently than say the Germans or the French. It is OK to disagree with something. It is OK to protest if you feel there is a case. In England the media is littered daily with reports about the falsification of the initial dossiers used by the spin doctors in parliament. Only last week one of the advisors was found dead, after having leaked info to the press about the 'sexing up' of the WMD reports. So please, this is not a cut and dry case. There is a large grey area where people can wonder what the hell has happened, and if it is right.

Now, I'm sorry, but there is no direct link between 9/11 and Iraq. Your own president admits this. I understand some of the motives for going to war, based upon the evidence that was presented. However, if this was exagerrated, well, there should be questions asked. But, we could argue forever whether there was justification or not. You know? I mean surely there is more justification for war (if there was such a thing) elsewhere in the world? I see terrorism in Spain. English people dead. It seems this isn't a problem. I see hundreds deas in Uganda. I see terrorism and death in Palestine. I see open nuclear weapons programs in North Korea. I see a lot of things on various news channels and on the internet. i.e. I try to get as unbiased news as is possible.

Now as an English person, I witness every day the effects of the war in Afghanistan and and Iraq. You know the governement plans to build a million new home for asylum seekers? People who come to England, and abuse our relaxed system. Because there are so many, they receive private health care. At the same time, members of my family remain on year long waiting lists for urgent operations. I see schools closing. Hospitals closing. The roads deteriorating. Society deteriorating. Children with no respect, and I'm sorry to say this, aspiring to the image of American youth in films. In short, we have our own problems, and yet Tony Blair seems to spend the majority of his time outside of the country. Anyway, this is a long story, so I'll stop here.

Just out of interest, can anyone tell me what the errors where with the initial post? Have WMD been found? Why haven't they? Why weren't they used? Why are the Cubans treat so badly? Did the US government give $43 million to the Taliban in 2001? Why is hand chopping acceptable in countries like Saudi? Why are the French et al considered 'bad,' just because they didn't agree to go to war? Remember, the UN security council disagreed too! Will the war be good for the economy and armed forces of the US in the long term? Seriously, please tell me!!

Personally, I tend to avoid politics. I am more interested with my work. Which for anybody interested is based in the Amazon, and involves research on reptiles and amphibians. I see so much destruction in the world, and yet so much beauty. Yes I can call it love, as Scalawag put it, is this wrong? I defy anyone to spend 5 years in the Amazon and not feel that the actions of many in this world are unusual, and that includes Bush and Blair.

And please, if anybody wants to talk about the US governments abuse of world diversity and resources, bring it on!

But, to finish, let me again say, that just because someone disagrees with anotherm doesn't mean they hate you. That is a bit extremist. And yes, it happens. But I am sorry, many of you that have posted here are as extremist in your views towards say Iraq and Afghanistan, as some minority groups are towards you. You have to see that! And that is the basis of the problem! Personally, I don't. I look at that first post and agree, it is simplistic. But it does make you wonder. At least it makes people I show here wonder. If you showed it to an alien they would wonder. And yeeessss.....it is simplistic, and I appreciate there are many more things to consider. And yet the treatment of some people such as the Cubans by the US is atrocious in my eyes. Sorry, it is! In this day and age, Jesus! I se a lot of hipocrisy. Sorry, I do. The US back people one minute and then are at war wit hthem the next. It is unusual behaviour is it not? Time to fight your own battles, or not fight at all? Who knows, there does seem to be a recurring pattern here though doesn't there? Food for thought? I think there is a pattern, and that it does need to be addressed. That's all. NO hatred.

You wrote an excellent and powerful post in my eyes with nothing but the truth in it. You brought it to the point!

But you will see that your lines and your times were wasted, because they won't listen to you (the are neither able to listen nor to think). If you would have told these facts to the radiator on the wall it would have been the same...

By the way, the same conditions that you mentioned as to the health system, the youth and the roads are in Germany, by the way.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

Thanks Herman. I am not sure why we have been taken so out of context. We disagree with something, and yet are branded evil, stupid etc. I agree, that our words fall on deaf ears! But hey, one still still feels the need to voice an opinion every now and again.

I think the term 'extremist' needs to be redifined! Apparently it is unacceptable to fill the grey area and have questions...

I'll redefine "extreme" for you. The way Saddam's sons tortured Iraqi people could take the meaning of "extreme" to a new level. The smell of death in America on 9/11 could redefine the word "extreme". Your tolerance for American deaths would be another example of something outrageousy "extreme".

Go ahead and pat yourselves (you and Stoeckl)on the back in your solidarity against Americans. You both have been exposed for the creeps that you are. By the way, do either one of you have the slightest shred of decency to acknowlege that the death of Saddam's sons is a good thing? Or are you too preoccupied battling the critical issues in the world like "children with no respect aspiring to the image of American youths in films"?

scalawag

= The sheer atrocity of 9/11

= The number of deaths resulting from the IRA's terrorism campaign

= The gassing of thousands of Kurds in Iraq

= The treatment of women throughout the Middle East

= The poverty endured by the majority throughout the Middle East and Africa.

= The size of vehicle engines in the US, and the resulting pollution

= The number of illegal immigrants entering the UK every year

= The extinction of the indigenous people of N America and the Caribbean

= Exploitation of underage workers in the far east

= The number of civilian deaths during both Iraq wars

= The continuing number of military deaths in Iraq

= etc., etc.

= You see I could go on and on. But take note, you will see that I am trying to be objective. No one point is to be considered worse than another. They are all extreme. Not one of the above is correct. That is the difference between you and I. I don't think any of the above is acceptable. But yes, it isn't a perfect world. But I am still allowed an opinion. And tell me. Is anything I am saying here wrong?

To answer your question, YES you are wrong about the fact that the "continuing number of military deaths in Iraq" IS NOT EXTREME. It is certainly sad and unfortunate, but it is to be expected in situations like this. But there you go again attempting to put a negative spin on the US effort in Iraq. Ha ha Herpes, the efforts of Bush have been successful whether you like it or not.

Dropping Iraqi people into shredding machines by Saddam's sons would be a great example of "extreme". How about how you have to go out of your way to take a shot at Americans with your comment about the size of our vehicles? You continue to be creepy, yet you complain about being recognized and treated like a creep. Wake up!

scalawag

Well, just to inform you, the British are still in Iraq, and have actually suffered more casualties than the US. Now, for me, I consider one death one too many. It's funny how you fail to comment on any of the other points I made. Can you not agree with ANYTHING I say? Do you just like being argumentative? Calling names? Belittling the work of others? Creepy, me? Yes, I can see why. I try to keep objective. I try to understand your way of thinking. I disagree with the killing of men. Oh yes, very very creepy. Absolute lunatic. Total fanatic, that's me!

I'll break it down for you: You are the guy who hasn't offered one single solution. You are more concerned with saving the trees than you are with the "death and suffering" of human beings. Bush is now terrorizing terrorists, wherever they may be, in an effort to eliminate the "death and suffering" that they may cause. You, on the other hand, are doing nothing to eliminate "death and suffering" and, to make matters worse, you have been nothing but critical of Bush for what's he's attempting to do. Isn't there something more constructive that you could be doing, like finding a cure for air pollution?

scalawag

Oh you really have missed my point. Yes, all I do in my life is play in the jungle and save the trees!

Oh and one possible cure for the reduction in pollution, would be to ban all 2litre cars. Oh, and for certain countries to stop buying up excess qoutas from third world countries. Oh, and maybe to become a member of the world biodiversity treaty, and actually do something about destroying our world, as opposed to contributing it.

But, please, do me a favour, and look at my other posts on terrorism. And, more imprortantly, the cause of terrorism.

Just out of interest, how old are you, where do you come from and what job do you do?

that should have read 2 litre plus cars, not sure why the plus sign didn't show. And that was just an arbitrary figure, call it two and a half if you want to be argumentative!

Wow! For someone who claims not to hate the US you certainly have nothing but complaints about us. I suppose you want me to believe that WE are "the cause of terrorism"? Your understanding for terrorists and sympathy for their "cause" puts you in an unfavorable position. Go hug a terrorist Herpconsultant2!

scalawag

PS I'm a 41 year old accountant from Philadelphia, PA. What's your point?

Such posts like the ones of scalawag can only be written by an immature pimple-faced 16-year-old.

If he is telling the truth and he is actually 41 years old then he has a serious problem.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

Is that the best you can do jackass? Even a pimply-faced 16 year old kid could do a better job than you have here. Now go play with your comrades.

scalawag

Is that the best you can do jackass? Even a pimply-faced 16 year old kid could do a better job than you have here. Now go play with your comrades.

scalawag

Yeeehawww, wOw, congratUlations, thAt post was the clencheR that wE've All been looking for. now we know how the Crisis Over in the Middle east and the whole terrorism ProbLEm should have been dealT with. thanks hErman for that insightful and educating post. you da Man! Oh, and don't botheR yOurself with respoNding to my frivolous little posts. we all know how busy you are educating the world.

Stoeckl's thinks he's such a straight-shooter. What a joke! Make sure you pay close attention to the capital letters in the above post Stoeckl, you'll learn something important about yourself.

scalawag

Hey Wags,
Did you know that Odai Hussein would often torture Iraqis by either feeding them head first into a shredder(while they were still alive, mind you) or cutting their feet off with a chainsaw? Now he and his brother, two of the most brutal tyrants on the planet are gone...THANKS TO THE U.S.A.!!! Once again, on behalf of the president, YOU'RE ALL WELCOME!

Not that I'm proud / happy about our involvement in this campaign, it would be useful for you to remember the word coalition! It is not just the US out there you know.

On this point, I agree. These two men were evil people and have caused so much death and suffering in Iraq that their death comes as no real sadness. The people in Iraq will be relieved that they are now dead.

where are the other countries in this so called coalition. what 30000 brits, and about 235000 american army alone, and thats not counting air force, amrines or navy. so yes AMERICA in this war
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The next time the shuttle lands, lets all get dressed up in ape suits and charge at the astronaughts yelling and ranting. That way they can try to figure out where they took a wrong turn.

Mmmmm, did I say there are any others?

"Taken out of context", LOL. Your method of "disagreeing" is to post insulting and condescending remarks about the U.S. in a very sneaky fashion. The fact that you and Henry's sneaky jabs are cloaked by your appeal to keep this civil is very clever to say the least, but it doesn't slip by everyone. Nice try though.

Well said! These guys are screaming to be recognized as intellectuals, but they solely here to pour salt in the wounds of 9/11. They are not used to Americans taking the time to bite them back.

scalawag

9/11 isn't the issue. Terrorism isn't the issue. A tyranical regime isn't the issue. Liberating a country(long overdue) isn't the issue. Don't you see? If no one finds a WMD we will forever be the "bad guys", no matter how many lives we preserve now and in the future. It will never matter that we have saved a country from a brutal regime run by a nutball as crazy as Hitler himself.

"Powerful post" - ha ha ha! That post had the power to annoy, just like your post. By the way Stoeckl, my condolences to ya regarding Saddam's sons. Hang in there buddy.

scalawag

You have some serious issue Scalawag! I think in the US you'd be advised to go and see a shrink! ; )

Please, try and have a good day. And give peace a thought. And also, understand that not everybody is out to get you!

I can't find where I said that I thought "everyone is out to get me". Paranoid, conspiracy theories are more suited for guys like you and Stoeckl,who live in countries where the government can't seem to get it's act together. Maybe you should see the shrink?

scalawag

I tell you what you crack me up!

The paranoia refernce came from you thinking that the whole world hates the US, is jealous, wants to bomb it etc.

I'm not sure if you failed to notice, but British soldiers were the first to move in at Basra. So, I guess you could say, if you wish, that we have got things together! It doesn't mean people have to agree with it though! Ayyyy, flogging a dead horse comes to mind.

Excellent and powerful post, LOL! What does your health system, youth, and roads have to do with us? If the country is in such shambles, get off the forums and do something about it...make a difference. Oops, sorry. I forgot, your country doesn't offer the freedoms to make a difference, thus the bitter jealousy you display. Bottom line is, when the rest of the world is in trouble, who ya' gonna' call? Bet it won't be "Ghostbusters".

My point was that maybe our Prime Minister should think about matters at home rather than looking for one's abroad. And I'm sorry, but we have a national health system, and have of our people don't live in bloody caravans (trailers) so don't talk to me about an advanced social system, because yours is a joke!

Maybe your Prime Minister gets it that if matters abroad are not given the attention they deserve, you may no longer have a home. Regarding your comment on "advanced social systems , we are not Socialists.

scalawag

Listen, if we keep going as we are, we'll have more Iraqi's here than in the bloody Middle East, I am sure we are not at risk from them!

Cut me a break. Now your just trying to be melodramatic. Why don't you stop avoiding the one question that matters? How would you deal with terrorism. What would be your response to 9/11 if it happened to your country? For the love of God, give us the answer, hotshot. You have no problem bashing our president and our country, yet you refuse to enlighten us with your "all knowing" intellect and give us what you think would be a reasonable alternative. Put up or shut up!

Our social system is a joke? Abrasive words from someone who doesn't hate or resent the U.S. don't ya' think. The truth finally comes out. Strike a nerve did we? Be careful, your bitterness is starting to show. We can tell you're angry when you start using the word "bloody", lol.
Every country has it's problems internally. That's not what this discussion is about really. Let's not forget who started this thread with that condescending, insulting post. Anyway, you brought up your country's woes, not me. As far as our dwellings are concerned, which is so trivial and really has nothing to do with this discussion, we live where we "choose" to live. Some people like trailors. I assume you live in a mansion, hotshot? Or is it a castle. In our social system, life is what you make it. This obviously makes you jealous. I'm sorry for that. I'm still waiting to hear your solution to the whole 9/11, war on terrorism dilemma. You seem to be quite successful at dodging that issue, which seems to me is the key to this whole discussion.

You've obviously been in the jungle too long. The "direct link" between 9/11 and Iraq is simple: it's called "TERRORISM". Iraq was led by one very high profile terrorist who threatened the US enough to be put on the list of targets in Bush's war on terror. Don't overlook the fact that America is the country that was terrorized on 9/11, while you played in the jungle. The connection is glaringly obvious, but you have a hidden agenda that prevents you from agreeing with the evil Americans. Just ask yourself why you hid behind that initial post of yours without having the decency to reveal what country you were from until you were pressured into doing so. Also, I've listened to you blather on with your bleeding heart about "society deteriorating, children with no respect, the treatment of the Cubans, hospitals closing, the image of American youth in films, terrorism in Spain, hundreds dead in Uganda, HOWEVER I'm struggling to find where you have one compassionate thing to say about the brutal deaths of thousands of Americans on 9/11. Obviously you are busy worrying about bigger things like "CHILDREN WITH NO RESPECT, and THE IMAGE OF AMERICAN YOUTH". Go ahead and call it "disagreement" not "hate", if it makes you feel self-rightous, but WE'VE GOT YOUR NUMBER! I just wanted to set the record straight.

scalawag

OK Scalawag, so going by what you are saying, any country involved in terrorism is a threat to the US? Can you inform me of the long list of terrorist activities undertaken by the Iraqi's?

Americans aren't evil people. No single race has one way of thinking. Do you consider yourself evil? I don't. Herman doesn't. The majority of the world doesn't. Don't sell yourself short! Phweeew you have some insecurity issues.

What happened on 9/11 was pssoibly the worst single event to have ever taken place in my lifetime. Thousands of lives lost, and countless more wrecked. Nobody I know thinks that 9/11 was a good thing. It devastated the world. However, I don't agree that bringing war on Iraq has little to do with 9/11. If anything, it has arguably made the situation worse.

Ask yourself why 9/11 happened. You may get some insights. Well actually, you won't, because it is clear for everybody to see that you fail to be objective.

I also don't overlook the fact that England has suffered from terrorism for years. However, I didn't see the US and British armies bombing the hell out of Ireland in an infutile attempt to eradicate the IRA. You have had a rude awakaning, and your government has had a hard job to retaliate and show it's might. Do you see the Spanish bombing the Basque's in retaliation to this weeks bombing in Alicante? And please, don't talk to me about the difference in numbers. Any act of terrorism is wrong, and one death too many. However, causing more death and suffering is not the answer IN MY OPINION. You don't share that opinion, I can understand that. maybe you should try to understand mine?

And please, don't belittle my work in Amazonia. I am not playing in the jungle as you put it. What is your (genuine) job I wonder?

Actually 9/11 happened due to mostly unjustifed Arab-street resentment. I know I'll catch hell for saying that but it's true. Grant it, there are some things we should do differently (I'd like us to stop propping up the Saud's myself; they're hardly a true ally, and funnel massive amounts of money to terrorist--I dearly wish we'd have dealt with our so called allies first!). But, really, the Arabic countries have become obsolete of thier own volition. Their religion prohibits banking in any western sense of the word, making them irrelevant in todays global economy. In many Muslim countries, independt though is punishable by imprisionment or death.
However, many Arab/Muslims seem to have a deep desire to return Arabic primacy to the globe, a redux of the days when they were the major scientific and cultural leader (centuries ago!). Unfortunatly, the extremist in charge of many Muslim countries are afraid of modern science and political/philosophical/religious underpinnings of modern society. This leads them to challenge to west, and to consider it an evil empire (if I may borrow a quote). Even among the Arabic heads of state that aren't particuraly devote Muslim, it's good domestic politics to deride our country, to attract attention away from thier own economic and social failings.
Think about it; when was the last time a Muslim country had an economy that was close to on par with America's, or even England/France/Germany/Japan? They've been screwed over by (IMHO) bad leadership and bad luck and are PO'd about it, and, as people throughout history have done, turn to the current mega-power to blame it.
There was an excellent article about this phenom in "Forgien Affairs" some time ago. I can't recall the quarter it was published in, as my collection of them is also mostly in Texas. But, it shouldn't be too hard to look up in any of ya'll subscribe.

Paul
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Cornsnakes and kingsnakes and gophers oh my!

An objective view! Thanks Paul. I don't necessarily agree with all your posts, views, but I value your objective outlook. And on that note, I'm going to retire for the day before Scalawag drives me crazy!

Here's an objective view for ya: Bush is in Iraq to eliminate terrorism. Can you appreciate that?

scalawag

Again, give me a list of the terrorist acts performed by the Iraqi's.

Then we'll talk about the IRA, the Basque's, the Palestine situation etc.

Would invading Kuwait qualify, in your sad book, as a "terroristic act"? Would the "death and suffering" caused by Saddam and his sons qualify? Only a creep would act like Iraq had nothing to do with terroristic acts. Keep defending Iraq herpes! You are so disillusioned it's almost entertaining.

scalawag

Actually, no it wouldn't be defined as a terrorist act. Look at my posts carefully, in no post have I defended Iraq, as you put it.

And as you have defined my point quite perfectly, maybe we should rephrase your posts as the elimination of a THREAT of terrorism. You see, that is where the difference lies. And that is why so many people have a problem. You gonna bomb the whole world, just to eliminate the "threat?"

In my opinion, any effort to degrade our countries stance on the war on terrorism is a support of terrorism.

As Bush said so eloquently, "if you are not with us, you are against us".

scalawag

That shows how bloody stupid he is then doesn't it!

I believe the message is that if you're not with us, you're for terrorism, which is obviously the case with you. You've done everything to side-track the real issue here. Where's your solution?

No genius, it shows how honest he is. What was your solution?

scalawag

You know damn well that our aim isn't to "bomb the whole world". I could ask you the same question about England and it would be just as ridiculous. Elimination of the THREAT of terrorism is the same thing as eliminating terrorists. Get it nit wit? You are going to have a problem with the US no matter how anything is phrased. Have you seen us "bomb the whole world"? Was the strategic bombing of Saddam's regime the equivalent of "bombing the whole world" to you? Grow up little boy, you are making an ass outt of yourself.

scalawag

The IRA and the Basque are an entirely different situation.
First, they both operate mostly on the soil of thier own country. This makes them much less of a threat to us over here. While you might say that of Saddam, his power and location negate that; he could and did destablize a region we need. Also, the IRA and the Basque are held in check by the governments since they are NOT supported by Britain and Spain, respectively.

Also, they both operate against oppostion from the government: in other words, they are not (unlike the Al-Qaida) supported by the government of thier country. They are in fact hunted and hated by the countries they base out of.
If either attacked America directly, and the countries they based out of did nothing to help arrest them, and then tried to dis-allow us from capturing them, we would invade. I think it wise for everyone to remember that Bush gave Afghanistan 30 days or so to expel Usama and renounce Al-Qadia--if they had either handed him over, or allowed us to operate (for one short little deal), we would not be at war there now.
Saddam's had plenty of time in which he could have actualy complied with the treaties he signed. Both countries are there because they violated international law and then failed to take advantage of the President's unnecessarily kind offer.

Paul
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Cornsnakes and kingsnakes and gophers oh my!

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/020207/2002020707.html

http://www.rosbaltnews.com/2003/06/20/63020.html

http://www.easternstudiesdatabase.com/Terrorism-1-5.cfm?ShowPictures=No

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_incidents

Looking at the IRA attacks alone, we see well over a hundred dead and almost 500 injured. I wonder if the US would move into Ireland with the British, if asked? Would they reduce the country to rubble, as has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, in an attempt to eradicate the IRA?

Seriously, would they? Just want your opinion on this one. Would a full on war in Ireland be justified? How would people in the US feel about this? If the many Irish decendants disagreed would this mean they hated Britain?

I'd like to know your thoughts on this one Scalawag

Again Iraq was not reduced to rubble. alot of saddam palaces and building were. the country is actually in pretty good shape all things considering. and yes probably so, the us would go into ireland if there problems were affecting global security.

you always bring up the WMD thing, but Iraq is the size of california, can you find every suitcase of cocaine in california?
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The next time the shuttle lands, lets all get dressed up in ape suits and charge at the astronaughts yelling and ranting. That way they can try to figure out where they took a wrong turn.

Right......let me understand you. Iraq, is in great shape. WMD aren't an issue here. Iraq threatened global security. I guess that's why you bombed the USSR in the past and are now bombing N Korea?

As for "you always bring up the WMD thing, but Iraq is the size of california, can you find every suitcase of cocaine in california?"

Mmmm, well worded, and great analogy! I really get your point!

Oh, and as for 'always bringing up the WMD thing,' isn't that the point? I don't know if you missed any news broadcasts, or any presidential addresses, or are not looking at the global media now, but WMD were the pivotal point in the Iraq war. So, it is no coincidence that I should mention it from time to time!

Saddam was a WMD. You would have to be the world's biggest jackass to think that a guy like Saddam didn't have them. I know that YOU are rooting against the US in finding WMD in Iraq. You think that we'll look bad, but that's not the case. We've eliminated a regime that supported terrorism. We've accomplished our primary objective. We know that it bothers you and we know why: you hate us.

scalawag

Actually, Saddam didn't support terrorism. But that is irrelevant. You think he did, so sleep well!

Not only did he fund terrorism, but many terrorists were trained in Iraq. Get a grip.

Ok nit wit, Saddam was such a great guy. Does that make you happy Mr. anti-American?

scalawag

only a sarcastic twit who speaks out against "death and suffering" would taunt the US to go bomb N. Korea. Bush is not the mindless thug that you make him out to be. Accordingly, he will exhaust all avenues of diplomacy before using force on N. Korea. It's funny watching a sniveling little twit like you criticizing such an accomplished leader.

scalawag

Man, who could say it better? lol. Great post!

If Ireland invades England give us a call. Iraq was a threat to US citizens. Saddam had the wealth and the intention to terrorize the US. Ireland is not a threat to the US. Period! Whatever your country stirred up in Ireland long ago, you made your bed so lay in it.

scalawag

PS I hope the Irish aren't guilty of driving big cars also.

Oh right, I'd forgotten Iraq had invaded the US. Leave the analogies to others Scalawag, they're not your forte!

The IRA is a threat to England, so answer the Q, would you agree to a coalition for the invasion and bombing of Ireland? I mean England doesn't feel that Iraq is about to invade it! And we never felt a threat of terrorism from them. Now we do! That's just public feeling Scalawag, I am not fabricating things here!

But please, answer my Q, and we'll take things from there!

The answer is no. I wouldn't agree to the bombing and invasion of Ireland. There's no need. As I said to you before, there's a reason why the US was formed in the first place. There were many pompous a$$holes in Enland back then too. If Ireland has a problem in England today, I'm sure that the same type of pompous a$$holes from England have a lot to do with it. Maybe you should look into the "cause of the terrorism". How do you like that kind of response?. If Ireland decided to invade Spain, then yes I would agree to bomb them. Does that analogy work for you brainiac? But that would imply that Ireland has the fire power pull off an invasion on that scale. Get real!

scalawag

You say that in England the fear of a terrorist attack from Iraq is greater now than before the war? Do you remember the war in Iraq in the early 1990's? Wasn't England a part of that campaign? Were there any terroristic attacks on England by Iraqis after that war? Are you getting all worked up here over a "THREAT"? Do you actually think that, now that Saddam and his regime have been turned into dust, Iraq is more threatening now than before? You are clueless.

scalawag

LMAO! Good one.

A German journalist (an acknowledged expert of the Middle East) once said that the most of the people in these countries feel humbled by the success of the U.S. or the countries in Europe.

The way the army in Iraq was swept away in the first gulf war also showed them in what league they are playing. Also Israel, a modern orientated country in the middle of arabian nations is a permanent pain in the (you know where) of the arabs, on top of that because they have also proven to be superior to their neighbours.

This led to a abysmal grudge, a deep hatred. And therefore the people in Iraq will never accept the presence of troops from the U.S. or Great Britain. In my opinion most of the people there would have choosen Saddam Hussein as the inferior evil.

Being injured in their proud they will never stop fighting until the last foreign soldier leaves the country.

Just ask Israel. Although superior they can never live in peace but have to be afraid going into a pizzeria or taking the bus.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

For you to even insinuate that the Iraqi people would rather be under the rule of the Husseins than to have our troops over there protecting them shows just how misguided you really are!!! Let me remind you that our troops are not a permanent fixture in Iraq. However, the absence of a nutball dictator and his pathetic sons is permanent. I'm pretty sure that the Iraqis don't share your ridiculous and delusional views.

Spoken like a true commie! Stoeckl, why don't you grow a spine and stop hiding behind things that you say the Arabs of the world feel toward America. Do you also have a problem with us because you "are humbled" and feel that we are "modern oriented" and "successful"? Of course you do because you think like a commie. You've implied that it's ok to have a deep hatred for those who are successful and superior. Your obvious understanding and sympathy for the Arabs give you away. In a communistic society, no one is allowed to achieve. Success and accomplishment will only breed resentment amongst your comrades if they aren't as good as you. In America (capitalism at work), we look up to those who are successful/superior and we strive to become like them. No resentment! That's WHY this country is successful, and you get no apologies for that. We are not ashamed of our superiority, we're proud. You can go back to the Dark Ages Steckl, because that's where you belong. The inferiority complex you've projected onto the Arab and Iraqi people shows YOUR true colors. The happy faces of Iraqi people in response to the death of Saddam's sons show theirs. from now on why don't you speak for yourself!

In response to your other incredulous comment about the Iraqi people wishing that Saddam was still in power, why don't you stick a needle in your eye? Take some medicine, go to bed, get a grip! The choice that the Iraqi people face is between Saddam's regime or a new Iraqi government. The US is not part of the equation. The theory that the US is in Iraq to "OCCUPY" is as ludicrious as the article you've posted earlier. Stoeckl, you are a clown!

scalawag

OK brain cell, Iraq was not a very nice country. They invaded Kuwait, they bred citizens who were brainwashed into believing that the US is evil, their wealthy government was evil, and, no doubt, if given the opportunity, they would have killed Americans, wherever and whenever possible. To answer your ridiculous question, yes, Iraq was a threat to the US BECAUSE THEY WERE "INVOLVED IN TERRORISM". And yes, any country that is involved in terrorism is a threat to the US. Get it? Terrorism has been given a "rude awakening", and you seem to have a big problem with that. Therefore, I have a big problem with you.

Please don't compare Ireland to Iraq, the joke's on you. As far as what the Spanish are doing, I really don't care as long as they're not a threat to the US. Get it?

You made your position crystal clear by stating that the US "is causing more death and suffering". If you have any decency, as a human being, you'd give credit to Bush, Blair, and the US and British troops for putting an end to the "death and suffering" caused by the Iraqi government. Or are you sad to see that "death and suffering" come to an end?

scalawag

PS I'm an accountant

The war on Iraq has made the situation worse? Enlighten us, please. Any examples? Give me just one example of how the U.S. or Iraq is worse off now than it was before the war on terrorism or the 9/11 tragedy.

the link between 9/11 and saddam= al qeaida training camps found in iraq.

i do not hate you for having an opinion, but opinion are like a$$holes, everybodies got one. i dont think you should make an opinion so extreme until you have actually been to that country. you see being that i am in the american military and all i am working on my second trip over there. do i want to go? do i want to leave my family behind? no of course not.

yes GW had some misguided info sure, but we did not need to let saddam sit over there and violate un sanctions for another 12 years. sure we have people like north korea and liberia and other small terrorst factions throughout the world. all in due time my friend. herpconsultant i find you a very educated person and i have no problems with your opinions, your country or you. hell i was stationed in england for four years and i loved it. as far as stocke telling you americans dont think, well i have just lost all respect for you.
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The next time the shuttle lands, lets all get dressed up in ape suits and charge at the astronaughts yelling and ranting. That way they can try to figure out where they took a wrong turn.

...most people outside of America disagree with the war on Iraq. They didn't lose over three thousand innocents at the hands of terrorists! Of course the media in other countries is littered daily with reports that make the U.S. look bad. I defy you to find just one article from any paper outside of the U.S. that says one good thing about our efforts to wipe out terrorism. Our efforts don't just benefit us, but the rest of the world as well. Two of the most brutal tyrants on the planet will never again torture, rape, murder or terrorize anyone ever again. I'm sure your newspapers will be chastising us for this as well instead of thanking us for taking yet another step toward making the world a safer place.
With regard to your question about WMDs, we did find two, and we just eliminated them. You're welcome! As far as the French are concerned, we obviously didn't need their help, so please don't try to make that an issue...it isn't. Why don't you answer a question since you decided to drag the French into this? Why did the French so emphatically oppose us? Could it be they had ulterior motives? Let me help you answer that...YES! Maybe they it had something to do with the money they stood to lose from selling weapons to terrorists. Instead of asking if the war will be good for our economy, why not address the issue that obviously supersedes your trivial question? Like how many Iraqis will benefit from our actions? I bet the murder rate goes way down over there. Furthermore, how dare you question the benefits of this war on the armed forces. People are risking their lives in an effort to make the world a safer place... ah, what's the use? If you want to bub "fighting terrorism" and erasing brutal tyrants from existence a "pattern", then so be it. I personally think your and Henry's accusations are warped. Why don't you ask the Iraqis if they'll sleep better tonight knowing that they will no longer be brutalized? It doesn't friggin' matter why we went or what excuses we used to get there. The important thing is...we got there. In the words of Bill Murray(Stripes)...WE CAME, WE SAW, WE KICKED ASS!

Fine performance! Remember though, herpconsultant2 is from the seedy dide of England, and Stoeckl is , well just that, Stoeckl.

scalawag