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This girl"GEEBIE" is about my favorite 03 she is full blooded Lemke line "goini", i esp. like the eastern looking influence she has. she eats with mucho gusto, and is from Isis Reptiles

this girl... old pic of her but i like this shot!

more recent but she's even bigger now!

~Z
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Bklyn's Finest Brooksi & Goini Fanatic

full blooded "goini" (is she?) and i do see a eastern influence there(correct?), but she has the more "goini" speckling than mine. Soooooo can you tell me more about her?
here is "GEEBIE"in her younger days

well i don't have much info on here cuz i got her from a local petstore along with 2 siblings (0.2) they were labled "blothced kings" and rather costly ($85 each) either way i got them all had them sexed fed them like crazy for some reason i can't even remember parted with the other 2 females (regret every minute of it!) but everyone that has seen her said she looks like a goini with a bit of eastern influence i was even told she looks like she had GA eastern in her by 3people... i'll try to dig up some old pix... i think i have a few?

she's a super nice snake... i love every minute of her... eats great, super tame, produced some nice babies for me and i'm sure she'll produce many more this season.

this is another good female (2x het hybino) hopefully i get something nice from her!

l8r

~Z
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Bklyn's Finest Brooksi & Goini Fanatic

like a $85 snake petshops can be a little high but sometimes they have good stuff. What i like about "goini" besides their strong feeding response is they can be patternless/striped/blotched/banded and "goini" can exhibit eastern traits and easterns can exhibit "goini" traits. More and more people are considering L.g.getula and L.g."goini" variations of the same sub.
I would have kept all three of those girls.

yeah i hope to get a nice diverse clutch when she breeds to my patternless male (i got from Jason)

~Z
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Bklyn's Finest Brooksi & Goini Fanatic

I hate seeing pics of that guy because it makes me remember that I got rid of him.LOL At least you have a nice girl for him. Next year we gotta swap some babies.

Later Jason

nothin to regret... you know where he is and u can always get his offspring... now those girls... i can't geat baies from, oh well, can't keep um all!

l8r

~Z
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Bklyn's Finest Brooksi & Goini Fanatic

lol!!!, Zenny already has the finest "BROOKSI" in Brooklyn and now thanks to YOU! he's gonna have the finest "GOINI" on the east coast.

the currently accepted position is that "goini" in its "pure" form is striped or patternless. Whenever you see blotches you are seeing eastern king influence.
They used to snakes like those in the picture as "wide banded" easterns. Now those snakes are sold as "goini".

Of course, goini has been renamed something else (meansi) although few people have accepted the change.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

I've never had this experience but its said that you can hatch out a patternless or striped neonate from a female like that. You can also hatch out neonates that look like that one from a striped or patternless pair. Just my humble opinion but you can't judge a goini by its phenotype.

I'd also say that within such a small subspecific group there is technically no such thing as a pure sub-species but that point has been argued to death. Oh shoot, I did say it! LOL

"goini" is not even a recognized getula sub anymore. Some qualified herpetologists are confused as to the true status of the "apalachicola king". And you are also wrong about "meansi" being the accepted sub-specific name of "goini". Have you been watching too much of the national geographic channel? You know the snake wranglers series?

my buddy was telling me that he saw sumthin on the discovery (or something) channel about "pure" goini being the patternless individuals, we went at it for about an half hr on this topic...

*** now he's a Honduran lover that can't recognize simple things about his stock... for example he has a 3x het. male hondu that has tipping on every scale except a few random scales that are lighter/brighter in coloration, sort of a paradox like the snake is hypo in those spot... he's had the snake for 3yrs and never noticed i was holding the sake for less than a minute and noticed!***

eventually i just gave up and told him to believe what he'd like to believe... i was just frustrated that he'd go on some b/s he saw on cable rather than 1st/ 2nd had experience/knowledge

any way i think goini go have a look to them.. like when they speckle, it's not like speckling on a brooksi or a speckled king it looks somewhere in btwn... the head pattern seems similar from individual to individual, most goini i've seen have a patternless belly pattern as well... are are little things to look for when looking for goini, i have guidelines as listed above and a few more i'm not sure how to explain, i guess u just gotta know your animals...

l8r

~Z
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Bklyn's Finest Brooksi & Goini Fanatic

Tennant has a book out that explains exactly what "goini" are. The book is called "THE SNAKES OF FLORIDA" and the info is on page 197 it also has good "brooksi" info on page 199.

Snake hobbyists will be using the old names for years to come. Old habits are tuff to break,lol!

"goini" is not even a recognized getula sub anymore.

I know. I own a copy of (and have read) Blaney's 1977 treatise where he sunk goini, sticticeps, yumensis, nitida, conjuncta, and pointed out that floridana is actually the correct name for the yellow, south FL populations of getula (brooksi never was a valid name for that population).

And you are also wrong about "meansi" being the accepted sub-specific name of "goini".

Do you have information supporting that conjecture (where meansi was rejected, other than folks like me?).

Kenny Krysko (in his dissertation) reelevated this population to taxonomic validity. He has also published this information (I don't know where, however). He determined the real Appalachicola Kings were the patternless snakes and gave them the new name "meansi" based on little more than a taxonomic technicality. I don't have the reference for this change, however.

Once it is published, this name will be technically correct since goini was invalidated. It hasn't been widely accepted, however and I suspect the ICZN will reassign goini to this population if they are approached to do so.

Have you been watching too much of the national geographic channel? You know the snake wranglers series?

I didn't watch it on TV, I didn't need to since I read it in the literature.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

I doubt "meansi" will be accepted, time will tell.

Not really sure how this works but does this sum it up?

The population known as goini was invalidated as a sub-species

The population formerly known as goini was reevaluated and found valid but renamed meansi.

Don't understand why, if Blaney was wrong, the population was not just again called goini instead of giving it another name. Isn't the point of nomenclature to set a standard name? With all the recent technical corrections these designations might be technically more correct but they are increasingly less standard. Meansi! Give me a break. Sorry just an old far s rant.

The population known as goini was invalidated as a sub-species

Right. Blaney felt that the population of snakes in the panhandle were intergrades between floridana and getula and therefore didn't warrant taxonomic recognition.

The population formerly known as goini was reevaluated and found valid but renamed meansi.

Sort of. Krysko looked at the snakes in the Appalachicola region and felt that the patternless/striped snakes represented a real population that deserved taxonomic recognition.

The snakes previously described as goini were intergrades between his population and easterns.

Don't understand why, if Blaney was wrong, the population was not just again called goini instead of giving it another name.

Ahh, there's the rub.

The justification that Krysko used was that the original description of goini (Neill and Allen?) based the name goini on a blotched snake that was actually an intergrade between the real Appalachicola Kingsnake (patternless) and an Eastern Kingsnake. Therefore the name goini really referred to an intergrade population and the patternless snakes were unnamed.

Faced with this situation, Krysko has two options

1. Reassign the types. He could redescribe goini and allocate this name to the newly recognized patternless snakes that he feels warrant taxonomic distinction. The beauty of this step is that it provides taxonomic continuity with the older name. Snakes in museum collections will be correctly named, field guides don't will be correct, etc. Furthermore, people would have no problem with this correction.

Of course, technically Krysko isn't required to do this. He can (and did) choose option 2

2. Rename the "new" population something else and throw away the old name. This solution does little beneficial other than allow Krysko to get credit for naming a taxon of N American snake and to get to name something after a friend/advisor, Bruce Means. It is, IMHO, a totally self-serving act to prove a taxonomic point.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

That's my take on it as well, Chris.
Sure would've been easier on us old guys to name the patternless "goini". Cripes!
I guess I'll call 'em all Apalachicola lowland kings. In fact my labels all say "Lowland king" now...
We all say "dial" this telephone number or whatever but when was the last time you "DIALED" anything on a phone???
Mine all have buttons to push.
Ahh well... I think I'll put these two together next year.


Call the babies L.g.mine
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

Mark I want some babies out of that pairing. and by the way I am getting to the point that I wished no one named or even found them because they are about to become to big a part of my snake room. You know I started with one.

Later Jason

..that I'm calling the babies L.g.mine???
haha.
I guess I could let some go to good homes
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

That was to funny. I almost choked to death. I still have tears in my eyes. hahaha Holy crap I am diei-ing here.

(Starts to breath again)

OK if you get rid of some let me know. They didn't produce this year did they??????

You know the more I think about it I'm going to keep calling them goini.

Hi JETZEN
i have noticed that GEEBIE isnt feeding in your hands, whats going on, you have broken the flow of pukka hand feeding photos.

Lovely Goini by the way.

Paul..

Here is my Sons Lampropeltis alterna

2nd: pic 1st-aug-05
1st: pic 21st-nov-05

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Pinky's taste nice,only if there fresh..

and very nice alterna.