Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I hatched out a small group of variable kings this summer and other than a couple of isolated instances, they haven't fed yet. I believe I've tried it all: Live pinks, live pinks scented with skinks, frozen/thawed pinks, brained frozen/thawed pinks, frozen/thawed tails, heads, and legs of pinks, frozen/thawed pinks scented with skinks, live skinks (tiny 5-line and Ground), frozen/thawed pinks scented with bottled retail lizard scent, feeder fish (rosey reds/fathead minnows).

One of the hatchlings ate a live feeder fish that was offered to it once, but nothing after that (I heard of that being done for picky grayband babies and decided to give it a try). One ate a live ground skink. Rat pups are entirely too big for these guys.

Do any of you breeders out there have any methods that I haven't tried yet? If they don't eat in too much longer, I'll break out the pinky press before they go starving.

If Lassiter sees this, he will respond with his "12-step" method. Actually, he has a written version ready to go and has posted it before. It pretty much covers all the methods and tricks and is an excellent recipe. If he has not responded by tonight, I'll dig it up. Stay tuned, and hang in there!

Bob

The thread which contains John Lassiter's "step-by-step" feeding program is entitled "Non-feeding thayeri, what to do?" and was started on Oct 25th. I have probably the least experience here, but I thought I'd chime in due to the fact that I've been having a similar feeding problem myself.

The little girl pictured below was a non-feeder for about 2 months, despite trying many of the wonderful suggestions offered by John Lassiter and others here at this forum (referring to the suggestions made in the above thread). I was starting to really worry about her getting too thin and I didn't think she had enough weight to cool. The picture below shows what she looked like just before she started eating. Now perhaps I jumped the gun a little since she did not look too emaciated, but I decided to try a "gentle" force-feeding. Due to her small size, I previously had been offering her f/t small pinkies that were cut in half at the mid-line (exposing brain and organs). After picking up the snake very gently and holding it with light pressure (with thumb and first finger) behind the neck, I gently opened it's mouth with my fingernail and placed the head portion of the halved pinkie in it's mouth. This, unfortunately, did not work as the little snake would not accept it and the pinkie did not have enough rigidity for me to exert downward pressure on it. I then cut off a 1-1.5 inch section of a small mouse tail, dipped the front end in pikie brains, and tried it again. After placing it in her mouth, I pushed it back ever so slightly...not even really pushing, more just holding with light pressure on the back part of the tail. At this point, she was still in my hand but I was not "holding" her. She started swallowing the rest of it on her own. I immediately lowered her into her enclosure and put a halved pinkie right next to her. To my delight, she grabbed the pinkie and ate it too.

Since then, which was only a few weeks ago, I have continued to offer her halved pinkies which she has not taken on her own. She has thrice taken another brain-scented rat tail but I needed to get her started by placing the tail in the back of her mouth. She then takes it and swallows by herself, so I don't really have to "force" it.

This may not have been the best solution, since for one, I may have to continue "force" feeding indefinately. I just wanted to post my experience with this, so you and others can comment or critique. No doubt the experienced ones here will offer better suggestions.

Good Luck,
Maria

n/p

try lowering your temperatures. I have had a terrible year with non-feeders, almost 25 percent were non feeders or ate once and quit. I tried all of Johns suggestions with no luck. A couple started eating on their own but most I fed mouse tails as discribed. Once I started bring the temps down on my Rosy Boa females, it dropped the snake room temp a couple degrees and now ALL of the babies have fed on thier own. That's right all of them, within a couple weeks. Some had not fed (except mouse tails) on thier own since hatching in early July. Last year it was less than 10 percent that gave me trouble but the snake room was cooler as I only had one rack of gravid Rosies heated up, this year it was two (about a 2 degree raise in ambient room temperature from setting two racks at 90 vice 82. The hot areas in the baby racks (inside the drawer not dirrectly on the heat tape) are at 80 now and all are doing well. This is the girl that held out the longest, now I think she would eat everyday if I let her, she's an animal!

Is this one of your hold backs? If not email me..LOL...
She is beautiful Rick.. You produce wonderful Thayeri.
The yellow male I got from you is outstanding and gets better every shed.

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Michelle

>>Is this one of your hold backs? If not email me..LOL...
>>She is beautiful Rick.. You produce wonderful Thayeri.
>>The yellow male I got from you is outstanding and gets better every shed.
>>
>>-----
>>Michelle

You need counseling (lol). She is #8 one you were interested in before. She has gotten MUCH better looking with a few sheds and a bunch of meals, but no, not a hold back. I've just been too busy to post adds (procrastinating). I'm glad "Lil Yeller" is doing good. Someday we'll see some new pics of him? How is the female's color?

Yes I am really in need of counseling...LOL...
See I told you lil #8 was going to be beautiful. I am glad to see she is doing so great. I need to get you some pics of lil yellow, I will put that on my to do list.
The female is getting more orange with each shed. She has very nice erasures in her saddles. She is really eating good.
We will have to talk about #8.

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Michelle

Here it is if you haven't read it already, but by this time of year if your snake has good body weight and does not look emaciated then I would go straight to step 6 and wait to try the steps again........These are definitely not a rule, but something I go by every year and have had a great success rate. Like I mentioned below this is an abridged version....I have other techniques and tricks I have picked up over the years that help me with stubborn feeders........

Step 1: Offer live newborn pinkie. If it is refused then....

Step 2: Offer brained, live pinkie (YES brained and live) Or Brain a thawed pink and smear the brain matter on the live pinks nose. The brained pinkie is cut from snout to base of skull. If it is taken, reduce the incision each time until it is no longer necessary to stimulate feeding. If it is refused then....

Step 3: Offer the brained, live pinkie under a dark, nontranslucent bowl with the stubborn feeder. Cover the snake and the prey and check in about 30 minutes or so. This has been the most effective method w/o scenting involved. If the snake refuses then...

Step 4: A lizard has to be obtained. I use Med. House Geckos. Freeze the lizard in a deep freeze right away for about 1 hour. Get a live newborn pinky and put the frozen lizard and the live pink in a container together and remove from freezer. The warmth of the pinkie will absorb the scent. Place it under a dark bowl with the snake and check in about 30 minutes or so. If the snake refuses then....

Step 5: Thaw out the lizard and cut its abdomen open. Dip the head of the pinkie into the guts of the lizard. Place some skin from the lizard on the pinky's head and place under the dark bowl with the snake. If this fails then....

Step 6: Most people would go ahead and repeat all the steps above for about 6 to 8 weeks until they get results. If the stubborn feeder does not feed then drop its temps to around 55 or 60 degrees for about 6 to 8 weeks. After removal from the temps repeat all the steps above.
Other people would feed then small lizards or lizard parts. I have had luck feeding them about 4 to 5 lizard meals then scenting pinks with such lizards. I have also had luck hibernating and then feeding. Remember if you start forcefeeding you will have to continue to do so to keep weight on the snake. It also stresses the snake out and it is harder to get them to start feeding on their own. Also, forcefeeding will kick in their metabolism and they will need to keep eating to keep on weight. They can live for months on the eggyolk absorbed in the egg. Just letting them wait on a winter cooling usually helps alot for spring feeding. I hear of people forcefeeding mouse tails successfully, but I have never even attempted it. The only force feeding I have done has had a low percentage of success. I have blended pinkies and used pinky pumps. I have even used Veal Gerbers baby food mixed with Pedialyte and Multivitamins successfully, but again it stressed the snake.
This is my abridged version but it should help you out. If you have any problems getting any thing eating drop me an email and I would be glad to help you out. Snakes are individual and each need a little something to get them convinced to eat pinkies and frozen thawed too...

Hope this helps some of you,
John Lassiter