Reptile & Amphibian Forums

greetings,
i am considering getting a tortoise and was looking for some advice. i'm looking for a medium sized one that would hopefully not get larger than a foot. i currently own a uromastyx so i do have experience with keeping herps.
what would be my options? how do you find the availability of these tortoises? does tortoise attitude vary dramatically from species to species? what would be some major differences in care between a lizard like a uro and a tortoise (aside from the different temps)?
thanks for the advice!

That's a nice looking mali you have there. Have you ever considered putting it on dirt instead of the seeds? I keep most of my reptiles on dirt (my mali uromastyx, my bearded dragon, and my russian tortoise...everyone except my leopard gecko). It is great. It offers a more realistic ground covering, and it is easy to create humid shelters (which uromastyx love, as they typically spend almost all of their lives deep in humid burrows).

For my russian tortoise I have a simple rubbermaid bin (temporary) with about 3-4" of topsoil... I would like to find a better soil, but there aren't any good ones around here, so store-bought topsoil has to do. The important thing about soil is to keep it well saturated with water. Once you get the watering down, the actual enclosure will be low humidity while you can maintain higher humidity shelters for your tortoise. Mine loves to dig a hole and sit down in it underneath hiding spots and other things, because it offers a very humid retreat.

For heating I have a simple 60 watt household bulb in a reflector dome. For low-heat reptiles such as a russian tortoise, I don't like to use flood bulbs or spot bulbs because the beam is usually too tight. I get a nice big even basking spot with this setup that usually stays around 95 degrees f. I have a flourescent UV bulb too, even though I don't really believe they are necessary for most reptiles (because of the little amounts of UV they give off). I figured with a tortoise it would be a good idea though just to make sure I don't get any problems with shell growth.

For furnishings in the cage I have basically two things. On the cool side I have a little hut type thing made out of wood and dowels. He likes to go underneath there and dig, and I put Timothy hay on top of it and around it. On the warm side I have the saucer from a clay pot with part of the edge broken off (with a hammer) that is used as a hide.

This is what I've been doing so far, and even though I've only had the little dude for about a month now, I'm confident that I'm doing things right. You should check out www.russiantortoise.org because they always have great info on russian tortoises, which is what I would recomend for you. They usually stay somewhere around 5-10"

Tortoises are awesome. I'd say my two favorite types of reptiles are tortoises and uromastyx. Bearded dragons don't really interest me. They use a lot of energy which means they live short lives. That's actually why tortoises live long. They are very efficient. I like leopard geckos, but I prefer reptiles that are herbivores, because they are much easier to feed.

So that's about all the input I can give you. Here's a few other species of tortoise you can look at:

Hermann's tortoises (eastern and western)
Star Tortoises...they are beautiful, but usually a lot of money.

I'm pretty sure there are species of greek tortoises too that stay small. Egyptian tortoises too? Just look around. Everytime you find a tortoise you haven't heard of, look it up and see if you can find out how big they get, what they need to survive, etc.

thanks for the thoughts
as far as uro substrate goes, we used to have a burrow made out of a tupperware container that had dirt in it. then we had some issues with his bowel movements so we removed every possible factor that could be causing an obstruction. i like the bird seed because i don't have to worry about him eating it and he can dig to his heart's content. also now we've created hides created out of rocks that seem more natural than the tupperware.
we have a 40 gallon rubbermaid container that we keep our uro in when we travel with him. he likes it just fine (almost better than his regular 40 gallon breeder, the brat).
it seems like every time i search i find a different type of tortoise, although recently i have been leaning towards a russian. we don't have a ton a space in our apartment though, so i want to make sure the next pet we get is deserving of it. i like tortoises because seem pretty mellow (unlike our uro who can't stand still for five seconds) and seem fairly easy to take care of.
thanks again!

Yes, tortoises are definately a little more mellow than Uromastyx, but I think that's what I like about keeping them both. My uromastyx, being a rescue that's very fat and old, isn't very active when in her cage, but whenever I put the food dish in she always runs over at top speed. The tortoise isn't always running around the cage, but it seems like everyday he cruises around every square inch of his place. He's very funny.

I'd say go for a russian or similarly sized tortoise. Even then, you are going to need an indoor enclosure that is a minimum of 4'x2'...no smaller. Bigger is always better. When I move out I plan on building a bed that's basically a mattress sitting on a very large reptile cage, and I'll probably keep one or two russian tortoises in it. They really love the extra space. where there is good weather, many people keep theirs out all year round in large outdoor pens, which I think is very cool. Our reptiles only have a few monthes a year that it is hot enough for them to come outside.

The thing to remember with tortoises and uromastyx is that the husbandry commonly used today (by pet shops and most reptile shops...and for uromstyx probably about 99% percent of the people that own them) is not very good. Dirt as a substrate will not cause impaction. Impaction is actually caused by being improperly heated, and dehydrated (which is what the dirt combats). Reptiles in the wild (especially uromastyx and russian tortoises) often dig or use burrows as a way to maintain hydration. If they were out in the dry heat all day, they would certainly die. The only thing that really keeps them alive at all on a dry substrate is by eating food high in water content and drinking from a dish, but this really isn't enough. Most of the uromastyx you see are dehydrated. In a lot of them it is very apparent by the dry, dusty looking skin and scales.

I don't know if this will be of any help but the 2006 Annual Reptiles Magagzine Buying Guide is out on newstands & it has an article about which reptiles are good beginner animals. The article states that yellow footed tortoises are a good choice for a first time tortoise owners.
You might want to thumb through that magazine, see what they have to say & decide if their suggestions sound good to you.
Good luck choosing!
-----
PHRatz

is that they are large enough that you can't really justify keeping them inside. The only way you might be able to pull that off is if you kept it in it's own room with very good lighting and the walls covered in shower board to keep them from rotting from high humidity.

I love yellow-footed tortoises and red-footed tortoises, and I was almost sold on the idea of buying one (most likely a red-foot) as a pet, but I realized something. Right now the largest enclosure I could be positive that i would be able to give another tortoise is 4'x2', and I don't have the ability to keep a tortoise outside more than a couple monthes out of the year, and even then I would never leave one out if I wasn't out watching it (we have foxes, raccoons, coyotes, stray dogs, stray cats, and the occasional bobcat, just to name a few). I know that it would probably only be another few years before I move out, in which case I could build a large cage for one. But the thing is, I don't want there to be any gamble.

Besides, I'd rather keep a russian tortoise in a cage that's 6'x4' than try to keep a red-foot tortoise in it. I think if you're going to get a pet, you need to make sure that you're going to be able to give them everything they need, and everything that you can to make them feel comfortable. Part of that is going larger than a 'minimum suggested enclosure size'. My russian tortoise right now (it's actually my dad's) will have a 6'x2' enclosure all to itself, and if I end up getting another russian tortoise to keep for myself, I plan on building a bed/enclosure when I move out (so the bottom part would be a heavyily braced enclosure, and a mattress would sit on top of it). With a full-size or queen size bed, that will make for a sizeable russian tortoise enclosure. Plus here at my parents' house we're planning on construction of a large circular garden of various greens surrounded by a brick wall where the tortoise(s) can go in the daytime in the summer to munch.

The general point I'm trying to make is not to get a reptile if you only plan on meeting the minimums. You should always try to go as far as you can to give them the best life. There's a guy around here that owns a reptile shop that will tell people anything they want to hear to make a sale. He'll tell you you can keep 3 russian tortoises in a 40 gallon enclosure, he'll tell you you can keep a pair of redfoots in a 4'x2' cage (for life), and to top it off, he said you can even house plated lizards with them. Sure...you could probably pull it off, but none of them are going to be completely healthy.

>> he general point I'm trying to make is not to get a reptile if you only plan on meeting the minimums. You should always try to go as far as you can to give them the best life.

There is no argument with that statement, you put that very nicely. I agree 100% with you on that.
Frankly I wouldn't even be a tortoise owner if we hadn't happened across our needy girl & had the space for her to stay with us. She's already about 55lbs, we've only had her for 3 & 1/2 years, she's gained 44lbs since we took her in... there is no way we could've kept a sulcata if we didn't have a lot of space for her outside.

I find it difficult to suggest a tortoise for someone else though, it kind of depends on what you want & what you can provide.
Did anyone mention Greek torts yet? They're fairly small & can live inside like Russians.
-----
PHRatz

I think that's great that you were able to give the sulcata a home. So many people buy them without realizing what a commitment they are. It makes me sick sometimes when I walk into pet stores and see what they have. I went into one shop that had a small (30 gallon) aquarium with an 8" sulcata and about a 9" red foot both with extreme pyramiding, and nothing in the tank except sand. I bet someone bought at least one of them by now too. That was a horrible shop. It seemed like they just threw animals in cages together just to save some space. There was so much mixing of species in cages that were inadequate for either species. It was sickening.

I do think I mentioned greeks. If not, they're mentioned now. They are another small tortoise that can be kept in doors (as long as certain criteria are met).

>>I think that's great that you were able to give the sulcata a home. So many people buy them without realizing what a commitment they are.

I think that's exactly what happened with ours. Someone bought her as a hatchling fed her all the wrong foods so she pyramided horribly & then when she started getting big he/she threw her away. I'll never know her story, it frustrates me to know I'll never find out where she came from but when I see how sweet & adorable she is, I can't imagine why someone would've dumped her like they did.
I am so happy that we don't have pet stores here selling sulcata but I know what you mean about them mixing herp species in the same tank & then not caring for them. I see it all the time too, just not with sulcata babies.
arrgghhhh!
-----
PHRatz

Ever notice that "blister disease" is only seen in people keeping uros on dirt?? I would suggest sticking with the bird seed.

Because there isn't a connection at all. the only problems that can arise are if you keep the overall cage too humid and cold, in which case respiratory disease will set in.

You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. In the wild, Uros spend almost their entire day in burrows deep below the ground (sometimes 10 feet deep), where there is very high humidity. They have even been known to get down into their burrows and block the opening of the den of the burrow with dirt to keep the moisture in.

There is no proof to point to blister disease being caused by dirt. I have done it for a few years now with no problems.

However, keeping a uromastyx (or most reptiles, really) on a dry substrate does cause problems. A dry hot cage is nothing more than a jerky maker. Almost all uromastyx in captivity are dehydrated to some degree, and that's because they are kept in enclosures that constantly dry them out. That is what causes impactions. A healthy, hydrated reptile with the right heat can pass pretty much anything that it eats.

But this is neither here nor there. You have to think outside the box. People use dry substates with uros a lot, but that is also why it seems so hard to get them to reproduce. Pro Exotics keeps their breeding uromastyx colonies on deep, burrowable dirt, and they have had good breeding. They've even come in to find that some uromastyx babies had hatched in the enclosure with the adults, because the conditions in their setups allow for that to happen. That can't happen in what is considered a 'standard' uromastyx enclosure.

Dirt always gets a lot of debate before people stop to realize what it has to offer.

Since when do uromastyx live on birdseed in the wild?

Greeks, Golden Greeks, Russians, Hermanns, they are all easier to keep, good first time tortoies that can do ok living mostly indoors.