Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am just wondering; Why are Box Turtles listed under Turtles and not Tortoises? I have always thought of them as tortoises and not turtles.

about box turtles and wood turtles (and any other terrestrial turtles there may be).

when i was explaining the difference between a turtle and a tortoise to a roommate (as "tortoises live on land and turtles mainly live in the water", he asked me "what about box turtles? they live on land, don't they?"

the best answer i could come up with is that it's a structural thing. box turtles and wood turtles are generally built more like turtles than tortoises -- their skin/scales are smoother, their tails are longer, and they have toes as opposed to just nails sticking out of a clubby elephant leg. also both their front and rear legs are similarly built, whereas a tortoise usually has burlier front legs compared to their back legs.

someone more scientifically oriented could probably explain it much better, but that's my best stab at it.

as a side note, i think that it's interesting that not all languages have different terms for tortoise and turtle.

nm

I'm not a herpetologist, and someone will eventually come along and point out my errors in Latin, but here goes:

All chelonians (turtles, tortoises, terrapins, etc.) are of the Order Testudine.

All tortoises are of the Family Testudinidae. This family includes the russians, redfoots, Galapagos, Aldabran, etc.

Box turtles are in the Emidydae family. This also includes the wood and pond (sliders, map and so on) turtles.

The other turtles of the world are contained in the remaining families such as: Batuguridae (asian box turtles, etc.), Cheloniedae (sea turtles), Kinosternidae (mud & musk), etc.

So if a chelonian is in the Family Testudinidae, then it's a tortoise. Otherwise it's a turtle.

In common use, tortoise=land and turtle=water, but that doesn't work well. And the Brits may use the term tortoise for box turtles.

Like you pointed out, the differentiation between turtle and tortoise is not as clean cut as is often told. What puts a chelonian into the family Testudinidae is, among other things, the design of its hind feet. All tortoises have elephantine hind feet, this is one of their key features.

There is an aquatic species of american box turtle in mexico, and I've seen many gulf coast box turtles that spent more time in water than out. Most of the american box turtles we are familiar with may not be aquatic, but they are much closer in relation to aquatic turtles than they are to tortoises.

a box turtle is physically able to swim (albeit not well). i do not know of any tortoises that can.

second, box turtles are omnivores. they have no problem eating meat. and, by that i mean live animals-not just carrion. some tortoises will eat the latter, but it is not common.

my redfoot can, and i've seen pics online of a yellowfoot that swan in its owner's pool... not sure if it's a species thing or an individual thing, though.

*note -- i watch him very *very* carefully when he swims! no chances taken here!

...

Maybe he has the physical ability to swim, but do you think that if given the choice, he would? It probably uses up a great deal of energy trying to stay afloat. Energy that they would usually use foraging for food. Tortoises are very efficient creatures, which is part of why they live so long. I don't think that if they were given the chance in the wild, they would swim, but if they thought they needed to for some reason, they would. There is that theory that galopagos torts started on one island and swam to the others, but I would think it would make more sense to assume that the galapagos islands started as only one island, and then split when a plate shifted in the earth resulting in seperate islands with tortoises on them.

Then of course there's a small south caribbean island that is home to some redfoots, and there is a theory that the original tortoises swam to the island from their mainland, because they are actually well-built for ocean travel due to their ability to thrive on high humidity, and their patience However, the journey would have been extremely long, and drinking the sea water would have most likely resulted in sickness or death. Plus, the variety of the tortoises found on the island were not that of those from the closest islands and mainlands, so it's pretty safe to assume that man brought them to the island as a food source (along with goats, which apparently also live on the island). The tortoises on the island do not get the proper nutrients though. They all exhibit pyramiding, and strange nesting behaviors. (This is mostly from an article in the June 2002 Reptiles magazine).

So true, redfoots can swim, but I don't think they would choose to, especially if they had to stay afloat for many days. They most likely would not make it to the island, but it's a cool theory nonetheless.

junir is too lazy/stubborn sometimes to even use all four legs to pull/push himself out of his water dish unless he has to, so i seriously can't imagine him in the wild choosing to do something so strenuous! i've only on a very few occasions let him swim, because i'm not sure that he enjoys it, but i'm sure that it's excellent exercise!

Indotestudo elongata can be described as a semi aquatic tortoise, especially in my locality of the central flood plains, where flooded grasslands are its habitat. Mine often enter the turtle ponds for a swim quite delibrately.

I also keep my Red-footed Tortoises (just acquired a new one today) where it has acess to the pool and found one on the semi-aquatic turtle's basking island just a couple days ago. They enjoy mostly staying in shallow water, but they have shown an ability to swim better than most Geochelone. I have not seen any of my other Geochelone showing any desire to swim.

I agree that the island populations were probably introduced and if given a choice would not opt to swim for days, but they do enjoy the water.

Michael

Geochelone Pardalis swims deliberately. They are even able to cross rivers, if necesary. In the Tortoise Trust DVD "An Introduction to the Tortoises of Southern Africa" there is a very curious example.
I do know a spanish breeder of this species who told in a spanish forum, how his leopards deliberately dive into his pool. He had to take measures to avoid it, because obviously they couldn't come out of the pool.

It is easier to think that the redfoots, as it ocurred with the testudo genus in the islands of the Mediterranean, were taken to the caribean islands by man. I read on the subjest aswell in the book "Turtle Conservation"M.Klemmens. During the Christianization of Latin-America, Spanish monks took with them the custom of consuming turtle meat in the 40 days pediod before the Holly Week (Easter)...in spanish "cuaresma". In this period, christians are not allowed to eat meat on friday (a tradition rather than a penitence). Monks followed this tradition closely, and turtle meat was not considered meat (I don't know why). Mediterranean Islands are full o populations of different species of the Genus Testudo (sometimes sympatricly), curiously in the islands where Religious settlements were established. If we add the fact, that they are genetically exact to those in mainland...there is no place for doubt.

The case of Galapagos has nothing to do with this. They certainly reached the islands by the sea. Not on purpose, it is quite obvious, but there is no other explanation. Maybe the arrived with a mass of floating vegetation or whatever, due to the important sea currents of the area. Then, they reconolized the rest of islans of the archipielago the same way. They are volcanic islands, there was not a "mother" island, split afterwards. You can read on this in " A Sheltered Life: The Unexpected History of the Giant Tortoise". Paul Chambers

Greetings from Spain

My older tortoise (4 years) can swim, but the hatchling can't, or won't...she's pretty obstinate. I'll try and snap a pic if I can when Shellie is swimming!

They are still classified as turtles scientifically, not as tortoises.

While box turtles are superficially more like tortoises than other turtles (terrestrial, high-domed shell, etc), taxonomically all tortoises belong to the family Testudinidae, while turtles belong to other families (this is determined both by using morphological characteristics and phylogenetic analyses). Box turtles, for instance, belong to the family Emydidae along with most other North American turtles (maps, painted, sliders, etc). There are several different families of turtles, and some of these are more closely related to the tortoises than to other turtles (like sea turtles). All turtles and tortoises are members of the Order Testudines (the turtles).

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/faq.html

21) What's the difference between a tortoise and a turtle?

[Glen Jacobsen and Darrell Senneke] Strictly semantics. All are chelonians. All chelonians are turtles. There is indeed a regional variance in the naming of chelonians. With the advent of modern communications this regional variation is becoming blurred.
In the USA - a turtle is found in or around water and a tortoise is found on dry land. A terrapin is a turtle that is found in brackish water. In general, look at the back legs. If they are webbed, call it a turtle. If they are stumpy (like an elephants) call it a tortoise.
In the UK they apply terrapin to freshwater chelonians, tortoise to land chelonians, and turtle to oceanic dwellers.
In Australia 'tortoise' is used for everything except sea 'turtles'. (There are no land chelonians native to Australia)
Terrapin is also occasionally used as the name for any turtle that is to be eaten by humans in both the UK and USA.

http://www.tortoise.org/general/wildfaqs.html#difference

In common usage in the United States, the word turtle is an inclusive word that refers to all species of water turtle, sea turtle, box turtle, terrapin and tortoise. The word tortoise refers to a particular type of turtle that is well adapted to life on land.
Scientists group all turtles together in the "order" known as TESTUDINES. This order includes about a dozen living "families" of turtle. Tortoises are a specialized clade or subgroup of the order TESTUDINES that are known as the Testudinidae.
According to Dr. Kristin Berry, the following distinction is made between the terms turtle and tortoise in the US:
A tortoise is a land dwelling turtle with high domed shell and columnar, elephant-shaped hind legs. Tortoises go to water only to drink or bathe.
In contrast, the word turtle is used for other turtles: pond turtles, river turtles, box turtles, musk turtles, sea turtles, etc.
So, tortoises form a subgroup that can be distinguished from other groups of turtle but they are "turtles" nonetheless.