Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Now I have been working on trying to figure a way to do this. After getting one persons suggestion a while back, making a CO'2 chamber I think he called it. He put the rat/mouse ina bowl with a cap of dry ice (wet). And the rat/mouse went to sleep. Of course covering teh bowl with a lid so the air could not excape.
I do not have dry ice available to me and I am sure alot of people do not. So I have been trying to come up with anotehr idea. (I dont like WHACKING them or STUNNING them and I know alot of other people dont liekit either.
I found a way to put them right to sleep. FAST and EASY. Anyone can do it. And it is not expensive. And can be done Multiple times till the stuff runs out.
But I need opinions on wether or not it will be safe for the snake to eat the rat/mouse afterwards.
Here is waht I found works. FAST. I mean in seconds.
I got a can of Dust Remover....(CANNED AIR)...like you use to blow dust out from your keyboard and such. Put the rat/mouse in a ziplock baggy and spray the air into the baggy keeping it zipped except for the sall part you are spraying into. Then once the baggy is filled, close it. The rat/mouse may already be dead at this point. It dies basically the same way as dry ice kills it. The only thing is you have to keep the canester upright so you do not get any of the chemical contents into the bag. You will notice this when you are spraying something, if you tip the can upside down, it leaves white cold material. I have been told this puts ice or something on the lungs when inhaled. BUt if you do it upright it only releases the gas. You can read about holding it upright on the back of the can. Anyhow, this works fast. They go right out. I just need to get opinions on wether or not it is then safe to feed teh rodent to your snake. As far as I read there is no kind of harmful substance that should affect it. Even if humans inhale it, it say just to take them outside to fresh air, or if not breathing to give CPR or give oxygen. But does not mention any complications or otherwise.
Ok, so what do you think.

I would stay away from that stuff. Some of those cleaners use chemicals like propane and butane for the propellent. I would not feed a mouse to any of my snakes that could have been exposed to a harmful chemical. The chemicals stay in the mouse's bloodstream after it dies and your snake could absorb these second hand. A better mehtod might be to buy frozen mice. They are generally cheaper than live prey and most snakes will take them quite easily.

As far as chemicals go, as long as you keep it uprght no chemicals escape.
It is some sort of CO'2 or somthing... a gas.
I also posted on another forum. And got a reply from someone else who said it was perfectly fine. Alot of people actually do it. Some in other ways than this. Some use this. Another person also said it was fine. however suggested a bucket wit ha hole to put the nozzle in so you could do more rats at one time making it cheaper. This is a good idea if you have mass amounts to be put down. I breed my own rats. I do not buy from other people. I guess my idea is for people who breed thier own. Or who just buy live for whatever reason.
Anyhow, thanks for the imput.
-----
Sarah Kafel
SlitheringScalies

1.1 Eastern Diamondbacks
1.1 Western Diamondbacks
1.1 Blacktailed Rattlesnakes
1.1 Rhino Vipers
1.1 Monocle Cobras
1.1 Egyptian Cobras
1.1 Speckled Rattlesnakes
5.6 Great Basin Rattlesnakes
1.1 Leucistic Texas Rat Snakes
1.0 Het for snow Brooksi Kingsnake
0.1 Lavendar Albino Brooksi Kingsnake
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.0.1 Albino Kenyan Sand Boa
1.1 Coastal Rosy Boas
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake
1.1 Gophersnakes
********0.0.7 Kenyan Sand Boas!!!!!********

1.1 Cockatiels
1.1 Fox Squirrels
1.0 Albino Hedgehog
1.5 Rats
A bunch of Koi
A bunch of Giant hissing Cockroaches
1 Giant Desert Hairy Scorpion
1 German Shepherd
There is a cricket loose in my house somewhere driving me crazy!
And a partridge in a pair tree!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't just experiment with novel toxic gases for killing rodents.

Why not rent/buy a CO2 canister if this is that big a problem for you? Or, as the other person suggested, why not buy frozen?
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Here is a link to the MSDS for Tetrafluoroethane, the contents of the canned air.

It appears to work as a CNS depressant which leads to heart failure and asphyxiation.

I don't know if the snake breathing the contents of the rodents lungs could cause CNS depression, and furthermore it almost certainly hasn't been studied in reptiles. It could be outright toxic to snakes like some other relatively harmless chemicals are (e.g. lysol, pinesol).

I wouldn't use it for killing food items without further information about the risk of exposure to the snake.

Tetrafluoroethane MSDS

-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Wher ecan aI buy a CO'2 canister? About how much do they run?
And I do not buy frozen. I breed my own rats. I enjoy breeding rats. And I like knowing my rats are all kept in clean enviornments and fed right and free of parasites, etc. I just like breeding my own food.
-----
Sarah Kafel
SlitheringScalies

1.1 Eastern Diamondbacks
1.1 Western Diamondbacks
1.1 Blacktailed Rattlesnakes
1.1 Rhino Vipers
1.1 Monocle Cobras
1.1 Egyptian Cobras
1.1 Speckled Rattlesnakes
5.6 Great Basin Rattlesnakes
1.1 Leucistic Texas Rat Snakes
1.0 Het for snow Brooksi Kingsnake
0.1 Lavendar Albino Brooksi Kingsnake
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.0.1 Albino Kenyan Sand Boa
1.1 Coastal Rosy Boas
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake
1.1 Gophersnakes
********0.0.7 Kenyan Sand Boas!!!!!********

1.1 Cockatiels
1.1 Fox Squirrels
1.0 Albino Hedgehog
1.5 Rats
A bunch of Koi
A bunch of Giant hissing Cockroaches
1 Giant Desert Hairy Scorpion
1 German Shepherd
There is a cricket loose in my house somewhere driving me crazy!
And a partridge in a pair tree!!!!!!!!!

A CO2 tank used for paintball guns might be a cheap solution. You can usually find one of the tanks that have on/off valves at any sporting goods store or even at Wall Mart. You can get them filled at paintball supply stores and many fire extinguisher service shops can do it. I am sure there are other places to fill them also if you look around a little. I would trust the CO2 over the air cleaner stuff.

Thanks. I have never played wit ha paintball gun before. I did not know you could REFILL the tube yourself. I thought it was somthing that was prefilled and non refillable. I will have to look into that.
-----
Sarah Kafel
SlitheringScalies

1.1 Eastern Diamondbacks
1.1 Western Diamondbacks
1.1 Blacktailed Rattlesnakes
1.1 Rhino Vipers
1.1 Monocle Cobras
1.1 Egyptian Cobras
1.1 Speckled Rattlesnakes
5.6 Great Basin Rattlesnakes
1.1 Leucistic Texas Rat Snakes
1.0 Het for snow Brooksi Kingsnake
0.1 Lavendar Albino Brooksi Kingsnake
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.0.1 Albino Kenyan Sand Boa
1.1 Coastal Rosy Boas
0.1 Gray Banded Kingsnake
1.1 Gophersnakes
********0.0.7 Kenyan Sand Boas!!!!!********

1.1 Cockatiels
1.1 Fox Squirrels
1.0 Albino Hedgehog
1.5 Rats
A bunch of Koi
A bunch of Giant hissing Cockroaches
1 Giant Desert Hairy Scorpion
1 German Shepherd
There is a cricket loose in my house somewhere driving me crazy!
And a partridge in a pair tree!!!!!!!!!

You might want to talk to a lab supply place to see whether you can get small bottles of nitrogen. I don't know whether they'd sell to a member of the general public, but nitrogen would be a good gas to use. The most important thing about using any of them is taking precautions to protect yourself from asphixiation. If you buy tanks of gas, you'll need to get regulators to dispense the gas, and you'll need a regulator that's right for the kind of gas that you're using. Don't "jury rig" a regulator to make it fit a gas cylinder different from the one on which it should go.

The atmosphere is 78% nitrogen, so using nitrogen would mean using something that is already surrounding you, your snake, and every rat that's ever lived. Nitrogen is a simple asphixiant. That means that it kills by depriving hemoglobin of the oxygen needed to maintain life. In contrast, carbon monoxide is not a simple asphixiant. Carbon monoxide actually destroys the hemoglobin, and that destruction is why hospitals have to work so hard on victims of carbon monoxide poisoning. Those people need help to replenish their hemoglobin supply.

Nitrogen kills quickly. Where I work, we have to undergo training on nitrogen safety. People have walked into enclosed areas filled with nitrogen and gone down on the first breath. In addition to being a simple asphixiant, nitrogen displaces the carbon dioxide that triggers the breathing reflex. Some people die immediately. Even those who don't die immediately need CPR to restart their breathing. I suspect that a nearly pure nitrogen environment would put down a rat very quickly and before the rat understood what was happening.

I don't know whether CO2 is a simple asphixiant or whether it causes some change in the blood chemistry. I'm sure that it makes the rat's saliva more acidic, but I don't know whether an increased acidity in the saliva is any danger to a snake. Considering that so many places that sell frozen rodents use CO2, I doubt that there's much danger.

Another option that might be expensive but feasible would be to use helium. I believe that most places that sell medium-sized helium tanks use pressurized containers rather than a chemical propellant. You'd need to ask, but if the only thing moving the gas is the force of pressure, then your rats will see nothing but helium. Helium is inert which makes it a simple asphixiant. Because helium is inert, it shouldn't make the rats' saliva more acidic or more basic. In fact, it shouldn't cause any reactions in the rat. Because helium is so much more expensive than nitrogen, industry rarely uses it, and I don't know whether helium kills more quickly than nitrogen would.

Again, take all precautions for your own safety, but my recommendations in order would be 1. nitrogen, 2. helium, 3. carbon dioxide.

Bill
-----
It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

THANK GOD FOR SMART PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO HELP OUT THE NOT SO SMART LIKE MEEE!!!!!

>>
>>
>>Bill
>>-----
>>It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

I use a CO2 tank from a paintball gun with the hose attachment..REfills are 5.00 and that last a long time..Of course I have the 20oz canister but there are much smaller ones that work...Dont experiment on living animals, just do it the fastest least painful way possible..EBAY has them cheap..Dont buy those fancy 35.00ones all you need is one of the 10 dollar 20oz tanks with a 99 cent hose.
-----