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several levels of hypo genes working all at once in the Honduran Complex.

shannon brown Dec 03, 2005 05:15 PM

I would say that this one falls as close as you can get to a extreme without being a "extreme".It has ruby red eyes and has little to no tipping and has grey but it has darg grey.I think its a very cool looking grey and I haven't seen another one like him.He is also 100% het for albino.
I have another hypo thats 100% het for albino that I got at the same time and as babies you couldn't really tell them apart.Now the other one is probably the lightest orange snake I have ever seen.Its almost transperant and is like a orange on orange as far as the inner vs.outer bands are concerned.

Anyways,There is a huge huge range and we keep seeing it grow every year but I have for a couple years thought that there are three types of hypos flowting around out there.Now keep in mind that This is just my theory and I don't have any credible evidence to back this up other than my own watchfull eye.
I guess you could say I have used for myself a,b and c just for simple practice like that of the anery gene in corns.
The oldest first line of hypos (love) would be that of (a) and is dark eyed and has alot of tipping compared to todays standards.When we look back and look at a hypo in (96)or so and look at just a tangerine it was a pretty killer snake and a huge leap for the hobby.
I think the second line may have come from Bruce Miller or some other unknown place and was a little cleaner and was red eyed (b).
Now,Yes it was compatible and this may be due to the fact that it was just line bred and a cleaned up version of the (a)but it also could have been a totally different gene that was masked for a generation until one was uncovered by the other during the next outcross.
I noticed that early on in my breedings that I would hatch out both light,clean red eyed and regular looking average dark eyed hypos from the same clutches.I guess that Maybe both parents were het "per say" for the other!
Sometimes I would just change a male (or vise-versa) the next year and get all of one kind.
Now keep in mind that all of these dark eyed babies going out would have been possible het for the red eye and the lighter more brighter orange.Now,You may be saying yes but wouldn't the red eyed be het for the dark eyes that are darker red etc.The answer is yes and no.Yes but you would never see it because its like saying its a tangerine albino but its a hybino.It gets masked.
The red eyes and the brighter lighter orange for whatever reason will always take over.

The third hypo ofcourse is the Mike Falcon extreme (c).I am not totally sure of its genetic makeup but I have my own ideas and I would bet that it involves a couple generations of line bred (b)hypos hooking up and maybe something else?But thats why its also compatible and you will always get hypos no matter what you breed in the hondurans.

Happy Hondurnicka

Shannon
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Replies (14)

shannon brown Dec 03, 2005 05:20 PM

blazing red eyes and very very clean but not even close to a extreme.
Shannon
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shannon brown Dec 03, 2005 05:40 PM

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shannon brown Dec 03, 2005 05:46 PM

Go Trojans........
Shannon
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shannon brown Dec 03, 2005 05:50 PM

Mike Falcon in the creation for the Extreme line and I have to give many many thanks to Jeff Alloway for giving me the chance to Purchase this little gem two years ago in Daytona.
Thank you Jeff.

Shannon
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MarcB Dec 03, 2005 10:11 PM

Man that Extreme Tri-c Hypo rocks!!!

Thanks for sharing Shannon
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Marc Bouchard
Selectively Bred Serpents
www.selectively-bred-serpents.ca

shannon brown Dec 05, 2005 01:01 PM

Thanks Marc.
Remember that poss het hypo female I got from you a couple years ago with a couple white spots on her belly?I think she is a full blown calico/pied.Its all over her now in small amounts and every time she sheds its more and more.Its starting to outline her black bands.

Shannon

vjl4 Dec 05, 2005 05:18 PM

n/p
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

MarcB Dec 05, 2005 06:48 PM

Very Kewl, I still have the parents of that girl. Please send me some pics.

Regards

Marc
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Marc Bouchard
Selectively Bred Serpents
www.selectively-bred-serpents.ca

davester Dec 03, 2005 09:09 PM

NICE! Those are some TOP-DOG hypos Shannon! I can't wait to see what you produce next year. I think this little hypo might be a distant cousin to your first pic. He's got a patternless belly too!

shannon brown Dec 05, 2005 12:57 PM

very nice dave.You are building a great collection yourself.
Shannon

jeff schofield Dec 04, 2005 11:37 PM

Shannon, when the EXTREME name was debated I suggested that the lavender albino be more appropriate.Anyways,I think this gene appeared within the original HYPO line, so what you are seeing is the lav,the hypo, and the lav hybino. I think a 2nd gene has occured within a single morph line several times now with colubrids,but because these 2 are similar they are going to be hard,if not impossible,to seperate out completely. NO matter,nice snakes! Jeff

ZFelicien Dec 05, 2005 07:00 AM

You just said exactly what i said... now will you take on the challenge of test breeding?
Ok, I know a lot of you guys may not be concerned but I do have a strong interest in hypo Hondurans, because there is a lot of variation in the hypos that I don't think many of us pay attention to.

first off I think there are three different types of "hypo" Hondurans.

1."Regular" hypo that is still dark but not as dark as a normal... this hypo ages and still develops tipping some more than others and has dark colored eyes

2."Lavender banded" hypo: hypo that has a lighter orange than the regular hypo, with lighter bands that appear almost purple/lavender and has ruby red eyes, when these age there is no tipping.

3. Extreme Hypo: Very light Bright orange, super light bands (gray), Ruby red eyes, show no tipping with age.

Now I strongly believe type 2 and 3 are more than just hypo Hondurans. I do believe that they popped up out hypo projects but their is more to it than just a hypo. (yes the definition of hypo in this case is reduced black and we do see a reduction in the black pigment, there maybe more to it)

Now I feel the following breeding should be done, and results should be compared

"Regular" X "Regular" - note how many if any ruby eyed offspring are produced

"Lavender" x "Lavender" - note if there are any "regular" offspring produced/ or if all hatchlings are ruby eyed hypos.

"Extreme" X "Extreme" note is any "regular" offspring are produced, note if you produce all "Extremes," if there are one or two, that are not "Extreme" but are still lighter than a regular hypo/ do you see lighter bands and ruby eyes.

not sure if one breeder has all the "ingredients" to conduct this experiment but I'm sure some of you have at least a few, please try to work together on this, lets see what happens

I would like to hear the thoughts of others on this matter as well.

Thanx

~ZF

Link to original Post

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Royal Blue ReptileZ

Bklyn's Finest Brooksi & Goini Fanatic

shannon brown Dec 05, 2005 12:34 PM

you suggest but it wouldn't really prove anything.We already know the outcome of most cause we have done them.I really don't like the name "lavender" either bescause I am sure that very soon we will see a true lavender albino or something in the hondurans so we should just shelve that name for a while.
Anyways,We wouldn't really see anything cause one would mask the other like I said.I have done alot of those breedings and its really hard to say whats what because whitout know the whole line all the way back you can't say whats in there.Its kinda like breeding two super clean nice tangerines and produceing a tri-color.If you search back you will find that one of the grandparents or great grandparents was probably a tri-color.
Well,the same is tru with the regular (a) hypos and the lighter red eyed (b) hypos.I am sure that with breeding two normal regular hypos (a x a)you could throw off a red eyed hypo that was cleaner and lighter (b) if one of the grandparents of the regulars was a red eyed hypo.This breeding I have done and seen this very thing happen and I did know that one of the grandparents was indeed a red eyed lighterhypo (b).

Maybe the only way to be sure would be to find a very old hypo (a)male thats still producing good sperm and breed it to a w/c female.Hold back all the babies and start a cool little project to see what you can do over the next three generations.Breed a couple females back to dad and breed a couple pairs of siblings together.See if you only get all black eyed average looking (a) hypos.Then take one of those hypos with fresh blood and breed to a (b) thats out there and see what you get from the first clutch.Would be fun to see what comes of it?

Shannon

ballpython13 Dec 05, 2005 08:28 PM

Nice Hondurans!!!My hypo honduran looks exactly like the one in the first pic, his eyes are dark and his bands are a darker grey not black. Thanks Scott

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