Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey folks... just today I received my yearling Royal Diadem Ratsnake via UPS. My goodness gracious me, he's entirely the most beautiful thing I've seen (since my last shipment of snakes).

Alas, he has a problem and I am completely and totally at a loss as to how to help him. The picture attached is of a hole in his belly. Doesn't seem to have perforated the "peritoneal" cavity (or whatever the heck they call it on a snake), but through some inner membrane you can see blood vessels and when he breathes or moves you can see stuff shifting in and out of view. It's only about four scales wide. I can't take the snake to a vet (I got it as a replacement for a deformed spilotes pullatus that the breeder didn't NOTICE was missing scales from both sides of the mouth.). I just want to know if this is something that will clear up on its own, or is the snake doomed? Should I hold off on feeding until it closes up? Should I have it put down? I'm so completely confused here.

Also, do these snakes make VERY DEEP and SCARY sounding hissing noises? I've never heard ANY of my snakes hissing at me, but this one was hissing up a storm as I opened up his cage. (he also bit me several times).

Anyway, any help with this poor thing would be much appreciated.

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~Sasheena

"I got it as a replacement for a deformed spilotes pullatus that the breeder didn't NOTICE was missing scales from both sides of the mouth"

This breeder sounds like someone to avoid. Two defects in a row?
Have you contacted the breeder yet? You shouldn't have to accept a snake with health problems even if it was a replacement for another snake that had problems.

That snake doesn't appear to be a hatchling from the photo so it's probably not a congenital problem. I know you don't want vet bills for a new snake but if you plan on keeping it, it may take a few sutures to close that up. Until then, I'd apply some antibiotic ointment and keep it on a clean, dry substrate (like newspaper). Royal Diadems are great snakes....good luck with it!
Chris

It doesn't look too bad to me but maybe its the photo. Is it really the body cavity that is exposed or is that the interstitial skin? It really looks a LOT like a very large, healed-over scale-clipping. Scale clips often take not only the scale, but a section of the skin underneath, completely exposing the body cavity. Remarkably, this does not harm the snakes much and nearly 99% survive with no infection and no ill effects. In fact, I kept a green snake recently after a scale clip to see how long it takes to heal and the skin healed over in less than a week. The scale remains clipped for a few years, but there is no long-term illness.

You can check to see if its skin by sterilizing a very blunt piece of metal and very gently pressing against the unscaled area. If pressing on it pushes the scales in as well, then it should be skin and there is absolutely nothing to worry about. If it is just an opening into the body cavity, then the scales shouldn't move at all. Also, FYI, most body-cavity openings have bloody edges, though they usually do not bleed much. If it is a hole in the skin, you would definitely see blood trails on paper towels.

My advice (if you decide to keep it) would be to keep it on clean newspaper and keep an eye on it. The split in the scales should go away with time and sheds.

I think it may have been congenital simply because there seems to be a very long seam in the belly scales that runs all the way past your thumb. This snake may very well have had a much larger hole at hatching, but has healed up over time.

Van

Ok, that just looks WRONG. That picture really freaked me out! Wow, this breeder you've gotten these two snakes from sounds like real quality, at least these snakes were sent to you and hopefully will get some quality care and at least you got a replace (albeit defective) for the previous defective snake. Gee, I just can't believe someone would sell snakes like that.

Good luck with that one. I really don't have any advice, but I'm just so bowled over by that pic!

I would love to know who this person is and will be sure to avoid them.
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~Katt

>>> Should I have it put down?

Are you serious?? Every snake I've ever hatched had a mark like that. It's called an umbilical scar. This was a joke, right?

kk

Hi Sasheena,

Stuff like that really ticks me off! Did the "breeder" (and I use the term loosely) notify you that the animal had such a gross deformity? Yes, snakes have a an umbilical scar when they're hatched, but it goes away fairly quickly. The wound on your animal is obviously old and is healing around the edges. Snakes can withstand a terrible amount of trauma without succumbing.

Taking into acoount the deformed Spilotes that you got also, I'm going to have to say that this supplier of yours is not a bona fide BREEDER. These look like classic signs of beat-up wild-caughts being sold as captive-bred.

This person/s is/are obviously unreliable and is selling animals under false pretenses. They need to be shut down ASAP! That's the bottom line.

Good luck with those animals!

Simon

In the picture, the defect appears to be old. Obviously pictures don't always show the 'true picture' about things, but it looks to me like it is in the middle of the old umbilical scar and the first thing I thought of when I saw it was umbilical hernia. The defect would then be located in front of the vent (in the area of the umbilicus).

If that is the case, this causes no distress to the animal, but obviously is very prone to injury if it is as thin as you describe. Should the snake somehow hang it up or puncture it, you have an open coelomic cavity and that IS a dangerous situation. Correction is surgical and involves freshening the edges of the body wall and closing.

If the edges have a fresh appearance (recent wounding), then cleansing, plus or minus freshening of wound edges, and closure of the wound along with antibiotic therapy would be indicated and veterinary care is required.

Good luck with the snake.

Hurley

Didn't take in the upper part of the pic. It's too far forward to be an umbilical hernia, but still could be a hernia and the advice wouldn't change.

Again, good luck with the snake. If that dark area is the inner lining of the coelom and that is a recent injury, rather than a chronic condition, then I wouldn't pass a meal with any size through that area without reinforcing it and/or allowing it to heal. If it is chronic, then obviously the snake has been eating with that defect and growing, so I don't think feeding would be a problem, but I wouldn't give him a maximally sized food item.
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~~~Hurley

Sasheena asked me to forward this response to the forum as she's temporarily unable to access kingsnake. She'll be back soon!
Rebecca
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"Thank you to everyone who responded to my email about my Royal
Diadem. I did speak with the breeder and he mentioned to me that He
did not notice this defect in the snake, and basically we agreed that
if the snake heals, all will be well. The snake is VERY strikey,
bitey, hissy, and the last time I checked it looked to me like the
fissure had increased by a factor of two, with further appearance of
more scales ready to separate at the middle. I will take another
picture and post it just as soon as I have internet access again.
(Tuesday). While I have not poked into the hole to see if the scales
move or do not move, I do believe that the perforation goes through
the skin, as I can see stuff moving around inside with much greater
clarity than I would expect to see through skin. I see blood vessels,
light and dark "flesh" etc.... as the snake breathes and moves, I see
a lot of changes. As he hisses at me the material inside actually
bulgest OUT of the hole by four or five millimeters, as he exhales it
bulges inward by the same amount. It is NOT bloody, and there is no
sign of any scabs or bloody edged flesh. It's as if the snake simply
has a HOLE inside. But I do not believe it actually penetrates the
body cavity, in that there is no perforation into the body cavity.
I've had the snake since Wednesday morning, and as of this morning
there has been no waste. I am keeping a close eye so I can change the
substrate (paper towel) ASAP. The breeder did not recommend my using
neosporin on the hole as he didn't know what this would do if it got
into the body cavity as it is a topical treatment. At this point,
especially as the fissure appears to be increasing, I am considering
sending it back. It is indeed a most beautiful snake, and I was very
impressed when I first saw it. Other than this one problem there are
no marks, scars, or any other sort of indicators that this snake has
a problem. I have not fed the snake thus far, and do plan on feeding
it a pinky when I do feed it. It appears large enough to eat hoppers,
but i do not want to stress it further. Also it is a yearling animal.
The fissure is about five inches away from the sight of the umbilical
hole. (Unless royal diadem ratsnakes have umbilical holes placed
drastically different from kingsnakes, which I had the pleasure of
hatching a number out this year).

There is a vet in town, but I do not know that they are able to work
with reptiles. I know that there are reptile vets in this area.
(greater phoenix) I might, if taking it myself to a vet is out of the
question, see if there is a member of the local herp society who will
take the snake off my hands and see that it gets good veterinary
treatment. If the breeder wants to work it like that, give me yet
ANOTHER credit, and not want the snake back, I will probably do that,
give it to a local person to care for and see it is given veterinary
attention.

Anyway, again thank you very much for your responses to my
predicament. I had anticipated only 12 hours downtime between one ISP
and another, and it will be 7 days at the very least from one to the
other. VERY frustrating.

A note about the breeder. I do not know enough about the breeder to
say for sure that he is a bad guy. It could be one of those horrible
cosmic mistakes. Or it could be he is really passing off bad
merchandise. My original order included four yearlings, one Spilotes
Pullatus (missing the scales beneath the nostrils... it flicks it's
tongue out the sides of it's mouth through the holes on either side
as often as through the front of its mouth), one picky eater Jungle
Carpet Python (force/assist fed only) that has eaten everything I've
given her and would continue to eat like a pig if allowed to, and two
yearling aberrant patterened banana kingsnakes (small for yearlings,
but perfect in every respect, and enthusiastic feeders also.) If he's
a bad guy I'll post about it. He's always called me as soon as Iv'e
told him of my troubles and has been very willing to work with me,
has never tried to switch blame or say I've done something wrong. In
short, even though he's sent me two defective snakes, I've seen no
other sign of a "bad guy"."

Hi again, Sasheena!

I have to be honest with you because I sincerely believe that you are a kind and well-meaning soul; The "breeder" that you're dealing with is quite honestly not worth his or her salt. To "unknowingly" sell an animal with such gross damage is proof that this person does not even bother to inspect an animal before it's sold. Come on, even a cursory inspection of the animal would turn up up such a horrendous deformity.

A bona fide, honest breeder would NEVER, EVER sell an animal in that condition. You can make whatever excuses for it that you want, but again, the bottom line is that this is NOT a reliable and trustworthy supplier.

Please don't deal with them in the future and you'll save yourself a lot of heartaches. You've had mites, a dead Spilotes, non-feeding snakes, under-sized snakes, and now THIS! Get away from this dealer ASAP! Do not EVER give them another thin dime.

Sorry to be so blunt, but my heart breaks seeing others' being broken. I've been there, and I've learned my lesson.

Take care, and best of luck with everything!

Simon

I have a pair of Egyptian Ratsnakes and they hiss almost constantly. When I first got them, I laughed until I cried because here was this little snake trying to be so tough...like "little dog" syndrome. LOL! Mine are pretty aggressive too. So, yeah...it's normal.

About the split in the belly scales, it looks to me like it will close up on its own just fine. I would keep the snake on newspaper and keep the wound clean but moist with antibiotic. Don't try to feed the snake until it is well closed up (so that it doesn't end up reopenning), unless the wound is far enough on the back end that it wouldn't present a problem.